July 14, 2005

BuzzFlash Talks with Our Favorite Specialist on Karl Rove, Texas Journalist James Moore on "What's Next with Rove, America's Benedict Arnold of the New Millennium?"

A BUZZFLASH INTERVIEW

"Bush cannot function without Rove. And the GOP is equally invested in his skills. I expect that, if the pressure gets too great, the president will move Rove out of the White House so he can continue to use his brain on congressional matters like Social Security and tort reform while not having to suffer quite as much politically with Rove still sitting in the West Wing. But I don’t think Bush will make such a move, if he can avoid it. His Achilles heel is his loyalty to his friends and it always has been. Bush will stick with Rove long past the point that he ought to have cut his losses and he will endure significant political harm."

-- James Moore, Co-Author of "Bush's Brain" and Author of "Bush's War for Reelection"

* * *

BuzzFlash is a great admirer of James Moore, a rare journalist with integrity, courage and respect for the truth. We have come to know Moore over several interviews and commentaries that he has written for BuzzFlash. The man feels democracy in his bones. He's not an evangelist, partisan or flamethrower; he just respects the truth: straight up, no chaser.

You can order the DVD of Bush's Brain from BuzzFlash at http://www.buzzflash.com/premiums/04/07/pre04029.html

You can also order the books "Bush's Brain" and "Bush's War for Reelection" (both of which BuzzFlash carried in the past) from any online bookstore, but we recommend an independent bookseller such as Powell's http://www.powells.com/s?kw=james+moore

So we're proud to share with you Jim's take on the latest Rove outrage against decency, the law, and the interests of the United States of America.

* * *

BuzzFlash: Let's put the legal investigation aside, because no one can read Patrick Fitzgerald's mind or know whether he has the goods and the courage to indict Rove at this time. But, let's suppose an outcome where Rove is indicted and Bush has no choice but to ask him to step aside. How could Bush function without Rove? Rove just got a promotion and is basically the President of the United State for domestic affairs.

Moore: Bush cannot function without Rove. And the GOP is equally invested in his skills. I expect that, if the pressure gets too great, the president will move Rove out of the White House so he can continue to use his brain on congressional matters like Social Security and tort reform while not having to suffer quite as much politically with Rove still sitting in the West Wing. But I don’t think Bush will make such a move, if he can avoid it. His Achilles heel is his loyalty to his friends and it always has been. Bush will stick with Rove long past the point that he ought to have cut his losses and he will endure significant political harm.

BuzzFlash: You are an expert on Rove, having covered him in Texas for years and co-authored the thorough and insightful book, "Bush's Brain." Given that Rove is now confirmed as one of at least two leakers in what we call PlameGate, how does his action -- which was an action of vengeance and a warning signal to other whistleblowers that everyone was fair game in Rove's world of counter attack -- fit in with prior dirty tricks and character assault that he launched since his young Republican college days?

Moore: He has done this kind of thing in the past. As a for instance, Rove worked with an FBI agent to launch an investigation into every Democratic officeholder in the state of Texas. None of them did anything wrong but they were all harmed by the news coverage of the probe. During the course of the investigations, reporters were constantly getting calls from Rove telling them about subpoenas that were being issued well before they had even been sent out by the FBI. There is a pattern of scurrilous behavior behind all of his political moves where he uses surrogates, cutouts, and other types of third party operatives to implement his plans and he keeps several layers of plausible deniability between himself and what he is doing. The ugly whisper campaign in South Carolina against John McCain, which questioned his mental health and suggested that he had a mixed race child out of wedlock, was classic Rove. He had done the same thing against Ann Richards, starting rumors about her sexual orientation based upon appointments she was making to state boards and commissions.

BuzzFlash: How do you think Rove could rationalize starting a war based on asserting that Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction (which he didn't), while he neutralized a CIA operative whose job was to protect the United States by tracking Weapons of Mass Destruction and their illicit sales? He also exposed her "front company" in the process and possibly endangered her life.

Moore: Rove, most people don’t realize, is partly pathological. He believes many of the lies he tells. In that regard, his world is a construct where, even if there is no a priori evidence that Saddam was connected to 911, Karl can easily convince himself there was a link. Whatever he does, regardless of how unethical, is always justified as being necessary for a greater political good. Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame are citizens Karl decided needed to be sacrificed for the benefit of the larger American population. The case against Saddam and WMD was trumped up because it was simple and readily accessible for most Americans and was something they would believe. Telling the truth and making an intelligent political case for action in Iraq or a US presence in the Mid East was too complicated. The lie was an expeditious tool needed to accomplish a political end and was, in Rove’s mind, a much lesser sin than letting Saddam continue in power, even though he was not the greatest terrorist threat facing America.

BuzzFlash: The Republican National Committee issued talking points today that showed up in news coverage on the Republican leaning programs and radio commentators. Not only that, the Chair of the RNC launched a major attack on Joe Wilson's character once again, claiming that the controversy about Rove is all just a partisan witch hunt. Is Rove still "spinning away," with carte blanche from Bush to mount his own diversionary defense?

Moore: Nothing that is presently occurring will be happening without Karl’s imprimatur. He is the message maker for the party and the White House. He probably had Mehlman and a few others offer input, but Karl will not trust his argument or his positioning to anyone other than himself. In fact, when his attorney, Robert Luskin said Karl did not “knowingly” out a CIA agent that was clearly Karl’s parsing of language. He thought that it would protect him from conviction on the treason act and it reflected a strategic step by Karl from back in 1991 when he was testifying before a Texas Senate committee. He was asked if he knew FBI agent Greg Rampton, who had conducted the spurious investigations of Democrats, and Rove asked the senator what he meant by “knew.”

BuzzFlash: The press and most people forget that Bush retained a lawyer shortly after PlameGate broke to legally represent him in any investigation, even while he was refusing to personally demand to know who leaked information detrimental to the national security of the United States and fire them on the spot. Is it possible that Rove let Bush know what he was up to and Bush just nodded? Or is that where plausible deniability comes in?

Moore: The history of their relationship involves a series of wink wink, nudge nudge agreements, where Rove is given implicit licenses to do what is necessary to achieve the political goal. Bush often knows what Karl is doing but, in many cases, he doesn’t want to know and doesn’t ask. As in the case of the slime attack against Sen. John McCain in South Carolina, Bush knew some of the tactics being used but not all of them. He was aware of and involved in the efforts by a dubious Vietnam veterans’ organization to slur McCain’s reputation, but Bush was mostly oblivious to the push polls and hate pamphlets flying around about McCain. I think in PlameGate, however, the president probably knew what was about to happen and did nothing to stop it, implying to Rove that he was on his own but to go ahead if he thought it was essential to protecting their arguments for war. The president likely has some exposure in this case, though I have my doubts anyone will ever be able to confront him on it legally or ethically.

BuzzFlash: Did Rove finally get cocky and overplay his hand, or was he just used to his "targets" lying down and taking it -- and when Joe Wilson fought back with tenacity and integrity, Rove was thrown a little off balance?

Moore: I don’t think Karl was thrown off balance by Wilson. He always assumes he can outthink and out message any opponent, and generally he does. Wilson’s intellectual heft turned this into more of a fight than Karl probably expected, but he still never thought Wilson’s case would have long term traction.

Nonetheless, I am beginning to believe that we may be experiencing a rare moment of hubris for Mr. Rove. It is one thing to leak a story in Texas and quite different to do such a thing under the auspices of the White House. I have my doubts that Karl was the direct source of the leak because that is not his style. But I have no doubt that it was his idea and he implemented the plan and decided who was to make first contact with reporters before he came along behind them and pushed the story along. But he would have been very careful about what he said, whether he used Plame’s name, and how he communicated with reporters. I think the phone records from Air Force One, enroute to Africa in July of 2003, will reveal the genesis of this sleaze and, if the public ever sees them again, the transcripts of the press gaggles on July 9 and 10 of that date, which have been pulled down from the White House web site.

BuzzFlash: Rove has been a master at manipulating the media through spin, propaganda, emotional appeals to patriotism, fear, intimidation, and the presumption that he was dealing with an acquiescent press. On Monday, July 11, the White House Press Corps momentarily awoke from a 5-year Rip Van Winkle snooze. What happened?

Moore: The people they cover on a daily basis --McClellan, Rove, Bush, et. al. -- got caught in a lie. Nothing animates journalists like being lied to.

The other piece of this is that they are all aware of the criticism they have endured for the past five years for being Bush administration lap dogs and many of them are trying to prove that they have spines and teeth. The tape of McClellan denying Rove’s involvement, and Bush saying that the person would be fired, will be played and played again and will have increasing political damage as more Americans begin to pay attention to the details of politics. I don’t think much of most of the reporters in the White House press corps and view the majority of them as White House stenographers in the mold of Judith Miller of the New York Times. But their job has gotten easier with the available videotape of administration lies on this issue and they can’t help but perform now simply by showing up for work.

BuzzFlash: If Rove is not indicted (and there is a still at least one other source out there, if not more), will PlameGate die because Rove will position any continued charges that he committed treason as expected partisan attacks -- and that Bush would then say something like, "I said we should have a thorough investigation of this matter -- and we did. After two years of exhaustive work by the highly regarded U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, Karl Rove has been vindicated. I look forward to having him continue to advise me and be of service to the American people. I have no further comments." That's a question.

Moore: You’ve obviously paid close attention over the past five years. I think it will be even more orchestrated, however.

If Rove does get indicted, I can see the president pardoning him and saying we need to put this all behind us in a time of war and move on together as a nation. The only real question in all of this for me is how much political damage is going to be done before the president has to make some kind of move to get Rove out of the White House.

If Rove gets too harmed by this, and there are charges, he won’t be able to help with legislation or all the work he is doing to set up the mid-term elections next year and that would be devastating for the GOP and what little hope Bush has left for some kind of meaningful legacy. The White House is placing tremendous pressure on Fitzgerald and he has to be even more principled than his fine reputation to not soften in his approach to this case. But you have to believe that the prosecutor did not go after reporters for two national publications unless he was very close to making a very big and important case. I will be extremely surprised if we don’t see some indictments in PlameGate.

A BUZZFLASH INTERVIEW