Dave Lindorff: Whiners, Poor Losers, and Why Hillary Shouldn't Be Barack's VP

It's kind of bizarre reading about supposed "feminists" who are reportedly claiming they'll vote for McCain rather than Obama, now that "their" candidate, Hillary Clinton, is out of the running for the presidential nomination.

First of all, John McCain is clearly the candidate of the anti-abortion crowd, but that's not the half of it. He's also the candidate who says Antonin Scalia, John Roberts and Sam Alito are his kind of judges. We're talking here about guys (yeah, guys) who think a woman's place is in the home, and who only recently ruled that if she's discriminated against on the job, and doesn't learn about it for a decade or more, a woman can't do anything about it, because the original offense of underpaying her happened more than 180 days ago. McCain is also the guy who, after his wife suffered a serious car crash and became disabled, dumped her for a younger, richer woman. A feminist's dream, this guy.

And how about Hillary Clinton? When she was supposedly getting her "White House experience" -- you know, the "co-presidency" she was supposedly part of during the eight years her husband was president and she was First Lady -- she and Bill oversaw the "end of welfare as we know it." What that fine piece of legislation did was limit people to five years on the dole. That's for life. It doesn't matter what misfortune befalls you later on.

Now many single women left to raise kids by fathers who either ditch them or who never stepped up to the plate as fathers in the first place, have a hard time between lack of adequate child care facilities and discrimination on the job, keeping the rent paid and food on the table. Many of them need government assistance well beyond that five years -- a period of time not long enough to even get one kid into full-time school, much less two or three. That didn't matter to Hillary, the great champion of women. She and Bill were busy triangulating and figuring out how to keep their White House position, and that meant selling out poor people, and especially poor women with kids. Welfare had to go.

Even on abortion rights, Clinton has been a waffler. In 2000, running for Senate in New York, she said she would be a staunch defender of the right to choose. But by 2004, she was saying abortion was a "tragic" choice, and was supporting parental notification laws for minors seeking abortion -- a position she continues to hold. But abortion isn't a "tragic choice" for everyone. For some women -- rape and incest victims, or women who are victims of abuse come readily to mind -- abortion may be a blessed relief. For some, it may be no more tragic than an appendectomy -- and it should be no harder to get, or to pay for than one either. There is a reason why the National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) voted unanimously to endorse Obama, who has said abortion rights are about more than just women's right to control their own bodies, but are about basic issues of equality.

What the cries of "McCain, McCain!" by disappointed Clinton backers really represent is an example of sour grapes, as well as of a certain perhaps hidden element of racism. It is as if blacks, had Obama been the loser in this nomination battle, were to say, "That's it, we're voting for McCain!"

Obviously, African-American candidates have had to endure this problem for years. When their candidate, whether it was Jesse Jackson or Shirley Chisolm or Ted Kennedy was defeated, they have had to look to their broader interests and decide whether to vote Republican, sit out the election, or just shrug and vote for the winning Democrat. Consistently, they have chosen the third option, disappointment after disappointment.

Blacks are supposed to stick with the Democrats, no matter what. Clinton backers, however, don't feel handcuffed in this way. Some of them, apparently, feel free to abandon all their liberal principles and vote for a right-wing, anti-abortion, fundamentalist Christian-coddling warmonger if they don't get the candidate they want from the Democrats.

If these grousers and poor losers in the Clinton camp thought honestly about it for even a moment, they'd realize that had Clinton won the most delegates, and if African-American and liberal, educated white backers of Obama, in response, were to adopt their position and bolt to McCain, Clinton would be a historical asterisk, with no chance of being elected.

In the end, I suspect that most of the whining and the threats to switch to McCain represent only a small, if vocal, minority. The truth is, in the course of 54 primaries, Obama won a majority of female voters -- a point rarely made in media reports on this contest. The same can be said of those "white -- hard working white" voters who supposedly went for Hillary Clinton in states such as West Virginia, Pennsylvania, and Ohio. In fact, numerically speaking, Obama won more of those white, working class voters than did either John Kerry or Al Gore before him. Meanwhile, many of those male voters who voted for Hillary Clinton are probably people who were going to vote Republican in the fall anyhow. There was an organized campaign, after all, by Republican activists, to throw the election to Clinton, who was seen as being easier to defeat in the fall than Obama. That effort almost certainly gave Clinton her narrow win in Indiana, and padded her margins in Ohio and Pennsylvania.

As for Clinton's fallback position of trying to make herself the vice-presidential candidate on a "dream" Obama-Clinton ticket, Obama would have to be crazy to go for it. Clinton brings nothing but disaster to the Obama campaign. He doesn't need her to win New York, New Jersey or California, all of which he will win by a landslide without her in November. He doesn't need her for Illinois (her home state, whatever efforts she made to try to pretend she was a rural Pennsylvanian during that state's primary). She certainly doesn't help him in the south, with the possible exception of Florida. She doesn't bring any "balance" to the ticket, given that both senators have almost identical voting records on domestic issues. And as for the swing states -- Virginia, Wisconsin, Colorado, New Mexico, Missouri, Ohio, Indiana, etc. -- she may do more damage than good, given the number of independents and Republicans who have been drawn to Obama, but who have negative feelings about the Clintons. Moreover, with the right vice-presidential candidate -- and it's not Clinton -- Obama may even have a shot at not just Virginia, but also North Carolina and even Mississippi -- states where the percentage of black voters is high enough that, with an energized black voter turnout, the liberal Democratic vote could be enough to turn the trick.

The Hillary Clinton campaign has all along been about entitlement. She began her race for the White House acting as though it was a coronation -- something she deserved after enduring eight years in the White House as second fiddle to husband Bill. Now, having been defeated, she's acting like she deserves second fiddle. But the truth is, Clinton, by her shabby appeals to racist voters, by her resort to red-baiting of her opponent, and finally by her refusal to denounce and apologize for her shameless and calculating backing for the invasion of Iraq, has rendered her unfit for a spot on the Democratic ticket.

Obama can do much better than that. Yes he can.

DAVE LINDORFF is a Philadelphia-based journalist and columnist. His latest book is "The Case for Impeachment" (St. Martin's Press, 2006). His work is available at www.thiscantbehappening.net.

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If my children are drafted in McCain's 100 year war...

...Dont expect me to have sympathy for you when Pat Robertson claims your uterus...The reaction of these Hillary supporters is sadly what the progressive movement has become over the last 20 years or so..sniping over semantics, "coded" motives and recriminations that do nothing but keep us divided and suspicious of each other. Is there any wonder that the religious right has been able to roll us so easily?...There was a time when we thought that being so-ultra-sensitive any any gender and racial bias, no matter how hidden or "coded" it was, would somehow "empower" us all.... Lets stop throwing ourselves into our own briar patch over gender and race...it only makes the enemy stronger

Earth to Hillary, "It's over"

If Mrs. Clinton really wanted to do what's good for the party, she would have bowed out gracefully and immediately endorsed Senator Obama. The fact that she did not speaks volumes, as she tries to hold the winning candidate hostage in hope of being included on the ticket, which action virtually precludes her inclusion. Let's move on here. Mrs. Clinton is out.

Well said

If Clinton backers vote McCain out of sour grapes, they'll get the Government they deserve. And yes, Obama can do MUCH better for the VP. Clinton is largely a creation of her own PR campaign.

Old white women

It is old women who are of an age that they grew up being taught to fear blacks. They may feel safer with crazy white McCain than with the black man that was the center of so many fear stories when they were growing up. For the most part individuals do not over come racism they just get old and die and are replaced by a less racist group.

Well, my mom is an 87 Reagan

Well, my mom is an 88 year old Reagan Republican, turned to the dark side by false images of black welfare moms driving Cadillacs. Never looked back and has bought every line sold to her by the right-wing propaganda machine.

Yet... after the idiocy of the past eight years, she's voting for Obama.

Change is a good thing, she says.

And dig this: I was hanging out with a couple colleagues today, rabid Republican conservatives, who will both vote for an Obama-Clinton ticket.

Why, you ask?

Because, in their estimation, such an administration will force true conservatives to the fore of the Republican Party.

We live in a mad, mad, mad, mad, world. I fully expect the sun to rise in the west in the morning.

The answer my friend is blowing in the wind

Perhaps there are a lot of "Closet Obama Voters" out there. When Americans get a closer look at Barack, his messages and ideas, the pendulum should swing immensely in his favor. Afterall, how could anyone listen to McSame, professing the same Bush ideology, then vote to continue the horrible misery Bush has thrust this country into? Yes, there will be some with type-R blood (republican) who will vote for any old republican, but many will use the secrecy of the ballot booth to vote for Obama. A word of caution here. Some Americans will expect Obama to wave a magic wand and put this country back together inside of his first six months. Never mind that Bush used 8 years to nearly destroy this great nation. So we must back Obama intensely through it all. Essentially, Barack will have to build a new nation from the rubble of a crumbled Bush empire. Yes, he/we can!

Whos Driving the VP Bus?

It would appear that the VP campaign is being driven that those "campaign operatives" who need to (a) now find another job... and (b) get a life. It has been reported that without the "consent" of the Clinton campaign, some of her "operatives" have set up a website, to petition for her spot on the ticket. Again, these folks now need to find other jobs (Lanny .... that means you) and get a life. Senator Obama has people to look for a V.P. Actually, three of them. Those people who say that 18 million voters, are like sheep, going to follow Mrs. Clinton, Mr. McAulliffe, Mr. Davis, et al. over a cliff, do not give people credit for having a thought process. Hillary Rosen has begun to set the record straight with her commentary titled:"I'm Not A Bargaining Chip, I'm a Democrat." Look for more of the same from other prominent supporters, who will put their love of their country, and their Party, ahead of the ambitions of a bunch of soon to be out of work political hacks.

Exactly!

Additionally, let's not forget that MANY Clinton voters voted early on in the process. Obama now polls AT LEAST 10 points over Clinton in California, which she won. Alot of buyer's remorse going on there. I couldn't see Clinton being able to beat Obama in New York OR California if the election were held again today. The ego of Clinton, in thinking that 18 million people are going to mindlessly follow her directives is par for the course. Any reasonable, sane person would have conceded and united yesterday - but this is Hillary Clinton we're talking about.

Losers

The real losers is the citizens of the US. Do any of you followers really believe that Obama is a man of change?? Whether Clinton is on the ticket or not most will not vote for him. This man is no better than the rest of them and will take whatever he gets and use it for himself. He did it in Chicago and Illinois government, so what makes you think he is the greatest gift on earth. Wake up from your dream world and face reality! The party dug from the bottom of the barrel for their candidates!

You're close, Neva.

Although I don't believe Obama's even close to the bottom of the barrel, unfortunately, those who see him as the Second Coming don't seem to be able to look at him with a critical eye...at all. In this age of sound-byte logic, it's too easy to throw blanket insults around ("rednecks","old women", etc.) and imply that people are somehow subhuman if they are thoughtful enough to reserve their judgement until they are convinced of, and agree with, a candidate's discernible beliefs. Obama has not yet given me any discernible reason to support his candidacy. But I'm open to being convinced if the dialogue ever becomes civil or sane again, with all the "Come to Jesus!" fanaticism put to rest...and if I can "discern" what the candidate actually stands for...other than the ubiquitous, nebulous "change." What really makes me angry, however, is the "Can't we all just get along?" rhetoric I'm suddenly hearing from those who just last week were continually insulting and/or denigrating my intelligence. The really sad part is that I believe this rancorous campaign ignited a generational war which will hurt us all...young and old alike.

Ah, Neva! You're Not Out Stumping for McCain-Lieberman?

B/c That's JUST what you sound like you're doing, you racist sore loser!

the racists are located on BF

You people are one sick bunch! You want to call everyone a racist if they are against your candidate. To you , the only ones against Obama are the racist or old white women. No wonder the majority of people believe that this party has been destroyed by the likes of the new progressives. The need for this country is someone that can bring all together. Obama and his supporters have destroyed that concept. The idea of change by Obama isn't going to happen. Are all of you on drugs or have all of you taken part in drinking the kool-aid! I wonder how many of you progressive have served your country. How many of you have put your life on the line for your nation? How many of you have checked in to Obama about his statement on the Iraq war? Could it be that there might have been a deal in the works, for Obama and his friends to make a deal with Saddam? One of his friends went down today and more will be going down in the future. Your pristine Obama seems to be disowning someone daily!

Really

How many of us have served our country? How many of us have put our lives on the line for our country? How about you, Neva? What is your military status? I was not able to serve in the military but I come from an extensive family of US Marines, 19 to be exact. My Marine cousin gave his life for his country and you in Korea. Our family backed him 100%. He dove on top of a grenade in a trench to save his fellow Marines. He was a true decorated war hero and is buried in our National Arlington cemetery. The six Marines he saved still keep in constact with us. My Marine family goes back to before WWII. And you think Obama and his friends had a deal in the works with Saddam? Saddam was captured Dec. 13, 2003. That was 5 years ago and Obama was a Senator in Illinois. You seem to have a severe timeline problem and I suspect a fact problem too.

Another Reason For Hillary to Go Away

Thanks to Barbara's Daily BuzzFlash Minute for June 4, 2008 I tracked down a reference that had Bill Clinton putting the kabosh on highlighting Ronald Reagan's involvement in the Iranian hostage crisis back in the 80's. Secret negotiations, in which Bush Sr. was involved, with the Iranians destroyed Carter's chances of reelection by guaranteeing the hostages would be released on January 20th, the day Reagan was sworn in.

Bill Clinton knew this and decided to sit on it:

"...Plus, in December 1992, after Clinton had defeated George Bush Sr., the Democrats saw little reason to pursue divisive allegations dating back a dozen years that also would tarnish the legacy of the well-liked Ronald Reagan. It was feared, too, that exposing these old crimes might engender more partisan bitterness and poison the political climate as a new President, Bill Clinton, was taking office.

At that naïve moment – 14 years ago – Democrats felt it made sense to bargain away a few seemingly unimportant historical facts for a chance at better cooperation with Republicans on domestic issues that Clinton held dear, like the budget and health care." LINK

That was the day the Democratic party lost its soul and damned the country to the course that took us right to where we are today.

You think Hillary would ever open this can of worms? Of course not. Will Obama? Does he even know about it?

At least he's not married to the cover up.

Spoiled

Clinton seems to be acting like the one bad apple that spoiled the bunch (bunch = democrat voters.) She refused to give Obama his moment last night, a historic moment in history. Obviously, Clinton is twisting Barack's tail. In doing so, she gives the impression of a spoiled brat stomping her feet refusing to admit the obvious and a blatant attempt to upstage her victor. Seeing her childish reaction to loss, I don't think she would be a good VP prospect. I have always been for the Clintons and defended them to the hilt, but after seeing Hillary in action, I've done a complete reversal.

I concur

I was always a Clinton defender. However after Hillary's Iraq/Iran votes and after her fear-mongering bullshit, I have completely reversed my decision. The democratic party would be better off without them.

Poor Losers

"In the end, I suspect that most of the whining and the threats to switch to McCain represent only a small, if vocal, minority."...I believe this is true, and I believe that some of these whiners are actually political operatives working for the Republicans. They all seem to have the same talking points, ie that Hillary was bashed and abused by the media and by Obama supporters. They use this as their reason for voting for McCain or for not voting at all in November. The truth is that Hillary ran a bad campaign and caused her own defeat. Blaming others is pathetic and reeks of the right-wing tactics Clinton is so familiar with. We've seen this movie before.

Oh, you mean like Sore Loser Yman, below?

Since his sleazy, spoiled racist Gal Hillary didn't win, he's presently right behind Lieberman, w/his nose up McCain's ass!

You're the "Doc"

That still cracks me up. Red didn't know if the "dr" stood for "doctor" or not. Hahahahahahah ............. Could've answered his own question if he bothered to read at least one of your posts.

Hey "Doc" ... how many times was it that you voted for that "spoiled racist Gal Hillary" again? Hahahahahahahahahahahahah ............

Double feature?

Will we see this movie again in November? So blaming others is "pathetic" and "reeks of the right-wing tactics Clinton is so familiar with"? Okay ... so if Obama loses in November, you'll be back here to call the Obama supporters "poor losers" and denounce all the "pathetic" Clinton-haters and their "right-wing tactics", right? You know ... those that will be blaming HC for the loss of the GE. To be sure, many won't even wait until November. They'll be here (and at Kos, Huffpo, etc.) for the next few months blaming HC and her supporters for even the possibility that Obama may lose in November. There's just no other possible explanation.

As for your "belief" that its only a small, but vocal minority, I hope you're right. Problem is, a small minority of almost 18 million voters may be all it takes to give McCain the election ................. and calling HC and her supporters names isn't going to make the number any smaller.

Christ, the facts are out

Christ, the facts are out there. Clinton ran a 20th century campaign and made strategic blunders while doing so.

Her 'inevitability' made her arrogant and therefore vulnerable. Obama's campaign blind sided her. She never saw it coming.

And her response did not bring out her best side:

RNC Already Using Clinton's Words Against Obama

Not facts, just opinion ....

And the RNC would be using Obama's words against her if she were the nominee. What did his campaign call her again?

“Disingenuous”
“Too polarizing to win”
‘Divisive’
“Untruthful”
“Dishonest”
‘Calculating’
“Saying and doing whatever it takes to win”
“Attempting to deceive the American people”
“One of the most secretive politicians in America”
“Literally willing to do anything to win”
“Playing politics with war”
"Hillary Clinton (D- Punjab)"
"Bush-Cheney lite"
How about his campaign aide telling a reporter to look into Bill Clinton's recent sex life? http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/clinton-obama?ca=iQXKMn%2FDF3O7uJqC0c790m7Uvm%2Bnaw3W14%2BdBvJpJDs%

These are just things said by Obama or his campaign directly, not including surrogates or supporters. I guess his response didn't bring out his best side, huh? Particularly for a "new kind of politician". What's that called again? Oh yeah ...... a primary.
But Obama's character attacks mimicking the right-wing nuts are okay, cause you agree with them, right? And the Repubs wouldn't be using his words against her if she was the nominee. That would NEVER happen!

No. Facts. She blew the

No. Facts. She blew the campaign.

"Today there are 77 million blogs. The Obama team could go to school on Dean and look at what worked and what didn't for us. We were the Wright Brothers. They went straight to landing a man on the moon - or in the White House anyway." ~Joe Trippi

"I'm in it for the long run. It's not a very long run. It'll be over by February 5th." ~Hillary Clinton, Dec. 2007

She practically ignored the caucus states... then insulted the Democrats that held them. Obama gathered 400 delegates in the Caucus states to Clinton's 107.

Obama's fund raising machine crushed hers.

Hey, are you actually saying that her characterizing the Republican opponent as superior to a Democratic candidate is okay? What?

Time to get over it. It's done.

Oh, btw... all those adjectives used to describe her are perfectly correct. Duh.

Duh ...

... was the only part of your post you got right, only not in the way you meant. That's great that Joe Trippi thinks Obama's campaign did a great job, but so what? I'd agree. He raised record amounts of money. So what?

My point was not that Clinton ran a perfect campaign or didn't make any errors. But when someone points at HC's campaign and says that "blaming others is pathetic and reeks of the right-wing tactics Clinton is so familiar with," they should be willing to apply the same standard to Obama in November. The Obama supporters who now insist that HC is entirely responsible for her loss should apply the same standard to Obama if he loses. If the same standard applies, HE will be responsible ..... not the media, not Hillary, not those racist, "low information" voters, not elderly women, not lower income workers.

It'll never happen ... the excuses will be myriad, including all of those above and more. They'll whine about the MSM bias, the right-wing machine attacks, the damage inflicted by HC, and all those racist voters who won't vote for him.

And those of us who would normally join in the defense of the Dem candidate (whomever it is) will sit back and, like you, say:

"Time to get over it."

The election is Obama's to

The election is Obama's to lose. He knows what the repubs will do. He's run a smart campaign so far, and it's gotten smarter thanks to Hillary's tenacity (yes that is a positive).

Everyone knows what kind of campaign the repubs will run: low down and dirty. Kerry's failed campaign tells him all he needs to know.

I don't think Hillary's profoundly inappropriate remarks (which you've chosen to ignore), claiming McCain would be a better commander-in-chief than he would, will fly.

Hell, all he needs to do is select people who actually have military experience for the right positions, and come out with names soon. Contrast those to the chicken hawks who dug our current hole should put the matter to rest.

(Hagel for Sec. of Def. would probably shut a lot of people up. I really hope he does that.)

As of now, it's all up to Obama. As for the Hillary effect... well it should be an easy balance between fighting an opponent in your own league while still making sure he or she looks better than the opponent in the championship round.

Hillary didn't adjust well to Obama's unexpectedly strong campaign and her off balanced response played to the other side.

I never listen much to what a politician on campaign says. I pay more attention to how he or she says it, and how smart the campaign is run. This speaks to the intelligence of the people around the candidate. The people around the candidate define the campaign.

As the Bush administration has shown us all too well. The people around the president define the presidency.

"Clinton picked people for her team primarily for their loyalty to her, instead of their mastery of the game. That became abundantly clear in a strategy session last year, according to two people who were there. As aides looked over the campaign calendar, chief strategist Mark Penn confidently predicted that an early win in California would put her over the top because she would pick up all the state's 370 delegates. It sounded smart, but as every high school civics student now knows, Penn was wrong: Democrats, unlike the Republicans, apportion their delegates according to vote totals, rather than allowing any state to award them winner-take-all. Sitting nearby, veteran Democratic insider Harold M. Ickes, who had helped write those rules, was horrified — and let Penn know it. "How can it possibly be," Ickes asked, "that the much vaunted chief strategist doesn't understand proportional allocation?" And yet the strategy remained the same, with the campaign making its bet on big-state victories. Even now, it can seem as if they don't get it. Both Bill and Hillary have noted plaintively that if Democrats had the same winner-take-all rules as Republicans, she'd be the nominee. Meanwhile, the Clinton campaign now acknowledges privately: She underestimated the caucus states." ~Time magazine May 8

Hillary lost the intelligence battle.

See ... a perfect example ...

HC's critics can't stick with facts when they critique her. They veer off into opinion and exageration. We all know the McCain/Obama threshhold quote, as well as the "experience" quote. Yet you insist she claimed "McCain would be a better commander-in-chief". All you would have to do is include the actual quote if you wanted to criticize her, but it sounds much better when you "kick it up a notch", huh? What about Obama's campaign asking when the media was going to look into Bill Clinton's recent sex life? Would that be "profoundly inappropriate"? Nahhhhhh.......

The Time Mag opinion piece from Karen Tumulty? Are you serious? You conveniently ommitted her name from this opinion piece, so I assume you know about her past "journalism". She was the one who pushed several "Dem candidates are flip-flopping liars" stories in 2000 and 2004, including: Kerry's alleged blaming (and cursing of) a Secret Service agent while skiing, the private endorsements from foreign leaders claim from Kerry - which they claimed could not have happened since he hadn't traveled overseas in the past two years, the "Love Story" lie from Gore, which she initially claimed was not a big deal and then joined in happily listing it as an example of his pattern of lies, the "Naomi Wolf is his secret (and very expensive) campain guru" story - including the Naomi Wolf/earth tones story, the "new/Flip-Flopping" Al Gore ditching suits for cowboy boots and khaki pants" story.

Karen Tumulty's opinion of this campaign? Please.

"Hillary lost the intelligence battle." Hah! Thanks for the opinion, but if someone's going to be the judge of her intelligence (Yale Law review editor), I think it'll have to be someone who is objective, and certainly not someone who went to Clemson (and is PROUD of it, nonetheless). As a (former) New Yorker, you should understand. It's like having little leaguers critiquing the ball playing ability of the Yankees.

You're Hopeless

"Senator McCain will bring a lifetime of experience to the campaign, I will bring a lifetime of experience and Senator Obama will bring a speech that he gave in 2002.

"I think that is a significant difference. I think that since we now know Senator McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that.

"And I think it is imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold. And I believe that I've done that. Certainly, Senator McCain has done that. And you will have to ask Senator Obama with respect to his candidacy.” ~Hillary Clinton

No she didn't "say" McCain would make a better commander.

Neither did anyone in the Bush Administration "say" there was an imminent threat from Iraq.

Go ahead and have the last word. You're not wrong and Hillary walks on water.

Thanks ...

... for proving the point. She never claimed McCain would be a better commander-in-chief, although you now appear to be claiming that was her intended meaning, or that she implied it (your use of quotation marks around the word "said"). At least that's better than putting words in someone's mouth. But it's an easy game to play. For example, when Obama referenced Hillary and said "You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out, folowed shortly by “I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal.” […] "Periodically" ... "... when she's feeling 'down'". Now, some interpreted those remarks as sexist. Agree or disagree, if someone felt like "kicking it up a notch" (as you did with Clinton's statements), all they would have to say is "Obama claimed when you challenge Hillary she turns into bitch on the rag!" It would be false hyperbole, but it sounds goog, right? Well ............ ya know ..............if it was about Hillary

BTW - Check your facts again. Scott McClellan said "This is about imminent threat," on February 10, 2003. http://rawstory.com/news/2007/John_Bolton_Bush_never_said_Saddam_0325.html
"Absolutely."
• White House spokesman Ari Fleischer answering whether Iraq was an "imminent threat," 5/7/03
The Bush admin also used several words synonymous with imminent - "mortal threat," "urgent threat," "immediate threat", "serious and mounting threat".
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/kfiles/b24970.html

BBTW - "Hillary walks on water"? Now you're doing it again ............. plus, you seem to be getting the two candidates confused.

All You'll Ever Get From Me is a

Yawn.

Sounds great ...

And I know exactly why ...

How about "Days of Whine and Neurosis"?

If Obama loses in November, there will be obvious reasons for it. You seem to think it would be the fault of Clinton supporters who blame Obama supporters and everybody but Clinton herself. So you're pre-blaming people for an event that hasn't happened. That's your movie, not mine.

You didn't answer the question

I'm not pre-blaming anyone for an event that hasn't happened yet. (That would be the "IF" in "If Obama loses"). You allude to "obvious reasons," yet you don't say what those "obvious reasons" are. So:

1) If he loses, what will those "obvious" reasons be? If you don't already have an idea, how do you know "there will be obvious reasons for it"?

2) You said that "blaming others is pathetic and reeks of the right-wing tactics Clinton is so familiar with." So, if Obama loses in November, you'll be the first to condemn those "poor losers" who try to shift the blame from Obama, right? Or is that when your "Days of Whine and Neurosis" begins?

Answers

1) How can you know the reasons for something that hasn't happened yet? By "obvious" I meant subject to rational analysis of the facts. 2) I won't condemn anyone, but people who shift the blame to someone else for their own actions are poor losers no matter who they are. And the "Days of Whine and Neurosis" are already here if you've been paying attention to the Hillary apologists.

The "Days of Whine and Racist" ...

... have been here at BF for months. (She's damaging him - get out now! The Clintonistas are racists/race-baiters. If he loses, it'll be because of Hillary! The only reason he didn't win PA, KY, WV, OH, etc. are because of the racists supporting Hillary! Bye, bye bitch! Blah, blah, blah).

The Clinton-haters have the largest vineyard in the world, and they'll be back with the same old vintage in November if Obama loses.

Ummm, no.

Actually, no they won't. The Clinton's have used up their political capital within the party. There's a whole lot of those 18 million who probably wouldn't vote for Hillary the second time around. Time's up for the Clintons. Time to move on into retirement and enjoy whatever of the 110 million they'll have left.

Really?

Based on what, exactly? Your brilliant intuition? Guess it's easy if you just make stuff up. You mean the California polls? http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/ca/california_mccain_vs_obama-558.html#polls Hah! Voters always gravitate toward the one winning the nomination. McCain's gained over 30 points since the Repub primary in CA. Plus, the RCP average polls immediately prior to the Calif. primary had Obama up by 1.2 points. Result? Clinton won by 9.6 points.

The Clintons have used up all their political capital and lost "a whole lot of those 18 million"? Really? Is that because you say so? That's so strange, because - as of today - if you look at the GE polling data, Hillary is ahead of McCain nationally by 3 points, while Obama's up by only 1.4.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_clinton-224.html

But, hey .... if your brilliant intuition tells you Obama doesn't need HC voters ........ good luck with that. But if Obama loses, please come back in November to enjoy the "whine". It will be flowing freely along with a sea of tears.

That big word "If."

[But, hey .... if your brilliant intuition tells you Obama doesn't need HC voters ........ good luck with that. But if Obama loses, please come back in November to enjoy the "whine". It will be flowing freely along with a sea of tears.] And hearing the bitterness flowing from the Clinton supporters in here, it sounds like nothing would please them better than an Obama loss just to be able to say, "We told you so." Yes by all means, break away from the party and vote for McSame so that the Bush policies can continue: War and threats of more war ... added deaths of our military ... lousy economy ... job losses ... rip-off oil prices ... inflated food prices ... crooked CEO's getting off scot free ... appointments of more GOP wackos to the US Supreme Court ... Roe vs. Wade down the tubes ... millions of Americans without health insurance ... higher education unattainable by most Americans ... continued and more cronyism in the administration ... high secrecy without explanations ... stock prices that yo-yo at the same prices as Bush's first day as prez ... pension plans dissolving without objection from the McSame administration ... tax breaks for the ultra rich while your pockets are emptied ... making Bush tax cuts for the rich permanent. Sad part is your bitterness punishes Obama supporters, but it will punish Clinton supporters too. Is the strife of putting McSame in office worth being able to say, "I told you so?" Lord, please don't be so bitter as to say, yes! And if the answer is yes, go ahead and shoot yourself in the foot. But be careful not to destroy anyone else's foot.

Pay attention ....

As I've said many times before, I am voting for the Dem nominee in November. That being said, my point is that the strategy of the Clinton-haters to continue trashing her and her supporters even now is, in fact, "shooting themselves in the foot." To some extent, the wounds will heal over the next few months. Many of her supporters will undoubtedly fall in line for Obama. Most are probably unaware of the kind of ridiculous vitriol thrown at her on places like BF, Kos, DU, etc. But for those that keep the spewing it, don't be suprised when a significant number of HC supporters don't turn out for Obama. And with Obama up by only 1.6% over McCain, how many Clinton supporters (half the party) can he afford to lose?

All clear now?