The Progressive Base Knows Better, I Hope

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

You gotta love it. It's too rich and amusing not to love.

For years, progressive writers have begged and badgered progressive politicians to get as down and dirty as the other guys, to really mix it up on the opposition's terms -- in short, to bobby-dazzle the masses with populist, bumper-sticker simplicity and wave the flag with equal fervor and sing saccharine paeans to Mom.

Then, once in office, they can think and act like progressives again. But first, they must win the bloody thing.

You know what I mean. You read it, and likely on at least a dozen progressive Web sites by scores of leading progressive writers. And you noticed its even greater intensity in the run-up to this presidential election, time and time again: We've got to get tough -- which is mostly to say, talk tough -- especially on national security issues, so as to flummox the Lee Atwaters and Karl Roves and Charlie Blacks for a change.

Fast forward to the present: These progressive writers finally have their wish -- a progressive pol who's no fool and possesses the grit and self-confidence to stare down the fearmongers by refusing to play the "weakness" card, especially right out of the gate, when he's still undefined in the easily spookable mind of the average American voter.

So what do these leading progressives then do? How is it they react? Why, of course, with an explosion of self-righteous indignation and reams of labored hand-wringing. Oh, dear, oh, dear, dear us, our guy is sounding just like one of their guys. Oh my. We best warn our readers.

And that's the rich, genuinely amusing part. I love it, not only for the comical irony of it all, but also because vast swaths of the progressive base probably know better.

This is the sort of naked, imitative pandering the base has wanted to see in one of its own for years -- the sort demanded of Al Gore and urged on John Kerry, but largely rebuffed by both.

Yet the base's "strategic" writers are now suddenly singing another tune, wreaking disharmony and discord across this baffled Republic.

It's gotten so bad -- the self-righteous disharmony, that is -- that last night a rather nervous Keith Olbermann invited Newsweek's Jonathan Alter on his program to proffer a kind of Progressive Politics 101. One could detect in Mr. Olbermann's delicate questioning a certain frustration: You explain it, Jon, so I don't have to slam the progressive-camp leadership with a venomous "Special Comment."

And Mr. Alter did, like he was teaching the alphabet to the prepubescently fussy.

OK, class, American voters don't like "weakness" in their leaders, you see. Especially low-information voters, said Alter; you know, the ones who will be pouring out to vote in November and haven't yet sized up the strengths or perceived weaknesses of Barack Obama.

So, see -- stay with me now, class, Alter continued -- the right will use legislation like the current FISA bill to portray the Democratic candidate as weak on terrorism, should he vote against it or support a filibuster of it.

Forget the friggin' telecom immunity provision -- which low-information voters could barely spell, let alone define as an issue -- for a moment and concentrate. For God's sake, concentrate, Alter was saying.

This is bigger, much bigger, than telecom immunity. This is about the next eight years and the singular alternative of George Bush squared, otherwise known as John S. McCain.

This is, to put it in its simplest form, nose-holding but necessary politics. Obama can clean up the welter of Constitutional apostasies bequeathed us by George Bush only if he first acquires office. That is the time for progressives to hold Obama's feet to the fire.

Is that cynical of me to say, a bit underhanded? You bet your progressive butt it is. It also wins elections.

Again, I sense that most progressives understand and appreciate this. But a lot of leading progressive writers sure in hell don't, however amusing their well-intended but rather befuddling self-righteousness might be.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

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FISA

We've got 12 days to convince our Senators to stop FISA This evening Senator Reid filed cloture on H.R. 6304. Under the agreement at a time to be determined on Tuesday, July 8, the Senate will proceed to Calendar #827, H.R. 6304, FISA. FAX to them ! Dear Senator,_________ Refer: Calendar #827, H.R. 6304, FISA. You must vote against this UNCONSTITUTIONAL H.R. 6304, FISA bill as it violates all of the below listed. Your Oath of Office ! I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God. Please pay close attention to the "So help me God" portion of your oath ! U.S. Constitution Bill of Rights. Fourth Amendment: guards against searches, arrests, and seizures of property without a specific warrant or a "probable cause" to believe a crime has been committed. Some rights to privacy have been inferred from this amendment and others by the Supreme Court. The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is one of the provisions included in the Bill of Rights. The Fourth Amendment guards against unreasonable searches and seizures, and was designed as a response to the controversial writs of assistance (a type of general search warrant), which were a significant factor behind the American Revolution. Toward that end, the amendment specifies that judicially sanctioned search and arrest warrants must be supported by probable cause and be limited in scope according to specific information supplied by a person (usually a peace officer) who has sworn by it and is therefore accountable to the issuing court. Search and seizure is a legal procedure used in many common law countries whereby police or other authorities and their agents, who suspect that a crime has been committed, do a search of a person's property and confiscate any relevant evidence to the crime. Certain countries, such as the United States and Canada, have provisions in their constitutions that provide the public with the right against "unreasonable" search and seizure. This right is generally based on the premise that everyone is entitled to a reasonable right to privacy. Though interpretation may vary, this right usually requires law enforcement to obtain a search warrant before engaging in any form of search and seizure. Your name address etc.

Let the Obama people know

Let the Obama people know how you feel LINK. I did. While the FISA bill decision hasn't changed my vote, it has shaken it...

Flood the inbox.

Can I borrow one...

of your crystal balls. "Obama will be a great president", "Obama is a republican", "Obama is a neocon". LOL at some of you people. You have no idea what kind of president he will be. At the moment he is kicking McStain's ass and he already kicked Hill-Billy-s (robertjones2001's make believe girlfriend) fat ass. The guy is doing something right, and none of you have any clue what kind of president he will be so just shut up already with the dire prognostications. The right to privacy ship sailed away long ago. Have you been to an airport? The border? The patriot act redacted the 4th amendment long ago, and corporations have been above the law forever. Nothing new here.

I was aghast over his FISA

I was aghast over his FISA capitulation, and while there really is no evidence that Dems moving to the so-called center (more right if you ask me) will help win elections, I will vote for Obama because I CANNOT vote for McNutts and the World CANNOT afford more of McBush. While eating the rich is what really needs to be done, I will once AGAIN vote for the lesser of two evils, and maybe Obama will veer to the left after his election victory (not holding breath though). At this point, I will not demand he be a perfect lefty let alone be a candidate with heuvos.

There was another way.

Perhaps I am naive, but would it not have been possible for Hoyer, Pelosi & Co to have smothered the FISA so that it never would have seen the light of day? For had they done so, no Democrat, Obama included, would have been forced to take an unprincipled stand in favor of it. If there was some reason why this bill absolutely had to be brought to the floor of the House, I would like to know what it is.

DLC

The DLC is not there to block neocon attempts to subvert the Constitution.

The DLC is there to sabotage Progressive attempts to block neocon subversion of the Constitution.

yes, yes, yes already!

Darnit, this crap drives me frakkin' crazy! The Right wing knows how to fall in line, regardless of any personal differences on certain issues - and they win offices amid baffling character flaws; the Left wing would rather digress into the minutiae of each individual concept of each individual issue as though this is some big Parisian cafe - and thus, LOSE elections. Granted, it's the very nature of "progressive", "democratic", and generally well-educated people to try to see all sides and play devil's advocate, to make every attempt to find the most rational approach to any issue, and to painstakingly analyze multiple points of view. These are great ideals and values in general, but absolutely horrible means for achieving any sort of cohesive body politic. The larger the group, the simpler and more defined the messages must be - this is proven throughout history. No amount of righteous indignation will restore SCOTUS, Congress or the White House to institutions that actually work by and for the greater populace. Know why "Liberal" became a dirty word? The whining. The Left has far more ammo in the arsenal with regard to every g**-d**m issue brought up by the screeching Neocons, but we let them shout us down, even if the shouts are pure nonsense. Shout back. It works. Bullies never back down if everyone continuously cowers to them. I know people who still say they're voting for an "Independent" candidate simply because they don't agree with a particular stance of the Dem candidate; "conscience voters". Maybe this helps you sleep better at night kids, but you're risking the welfare of the ENTIRE COUNTRY and in many ways, THE REST OF THE WORLD if you allow the Neocon Doctrine to maintain power. It's idiocy. We can all get back to the coffeehousing once we've REMOVED the known cancerous elements of our institutions. Wake up.

Just say "no" to neocons

Neocons keep winning because they frighten Dims into surrendering.

Neocons want Dims to vote for someone who will increase the size of the military, someone who will transfer hundreds of billions of dollars from working families to insurance CEOs, someone who will protect Cheney from prosecution, someone who voted for the Patriot Act, someone whose soul is owned by Wall Street, someone who will gleefully starve tens of millions of children so that his buddies can get more ethanol subsidies, someone who favors the death penalty for rapists, ...

In short, neocons want Dims to surrender and vote for a far-right wingnut.

And as usual, the DLC and some people who mistakenly believe themselves to be Progressive will surrender and do exactly what the neocons want. They will vote for Obama because he talks nice, which is precisely as dumb as voting for Dubya because he can fake a Texas accent.

Bone tired of weak Democrats...

Bone tired of weakness, that's absolutely right. Weakness demonstrated daily by Democrats who refuse to stand up to a bullying, bloviating Republican president. The weakness of capitulating on FISA. On the war. On taxes. "Low-information" voters will get it when Democrats refuse to capitulate to Mr. 23%, and make the case that it takes courageous Americans and courageous leaders to stand up to those who continually subvert the constitution. And low-information voters get that, once again, weak-kneed Democrats caved. A. Sally

Ayup, Aunt Sally

And PM - you know better than to insult your readership b/c they don't 100% agree with you on an issue they consider important, I hope.

Here's a post I wrote on Rachel Maddow's blog, responding to David Bender arguing roughly the same point you did on her show last Friday night:

Don't be too busy playing politics to comprehend what the real problem is w/Obama's stance on the FISA bill vis a vis his election chances. What is a recurring Right-Wing meme on Democrats, that keeps on sticking even as Bush looks more and more like the traitor and coward we all know he is? It's that "Dems are opportunistic and have no backbone, and will bend in ANY direction if they can see a momentary advantage in it" - which is exactly how Hoyer, Pelosi and the House Dems who voted for the FISA Capitulation look right now. It doesn't make them look principled, or aware of anything other than (in the immortal words of William J. Lepetamine) "holdin' onto our phoney-baloney jobs!" - and sadly, Obama's "I'm opposed to the Telecom Immunity provision of this bill and will fight against it - but will vote for it anyway" looks like more of the same from the presumptive Democratic Presidential nominee.

The Repub's Master Strategy that gave them almost permanent control of Congress and the White House was to stand on NeoCon Christian Conservative "principle" over and over, come what may - win or lose, they kept voting against abortion and same-sex rights and checks on televangelists, and kept gaining adherents throughout the Seventies and Eighties. Even people who didn't necessarily agree w/the Repubs came to see them as "standing for something higher than themselves", while the Democrats tore themselves to shreds over what was perceived as niggling issues of political correctitude (just like the Jedi Knights in STAR WARS 1-3 did). That these issues were, in fact, fumbling attempts to ensure equitable treatment for ALL Americans got lost in the round-robin recriminations of Who Has Historically Had it Worse, when the truth is everybody who's not a Rich White Guy have ALL had it really really bad at the Rich White Guys' hands!

I had hopes that Barack Obama would put a unilateral halt to this by his politics of principled pragmatism - of realizing that the world is a seriously flawed place, but it's up to all of us whether we whine about it...or do our damnedest to change that. Unfortunately, his position on this FISA bill makes him appear neither pragmatic nor principled, but desperate and pandering in the way Hillary Clinton's votes for the Iraq and (forthcoming) Iran War, and for The PATRIOT Act (twice!) made her look when she ran for President.

I believe, firmly, that Obama needed to vote against the FISA bill, because even if he lost the vote, even if most Americans are so terrified of the Ay-rab Boogeyman that they will cheerfully flush their civil liberties down the toilet and Question the Patriotism of anyone who reminds them that's exactly what they're doing, what they will remember come Election Day is "That Barack Obama, he's - got principles, don't he? Of course he's wrong - but still...he's got principles, unlike McCain who keeps flip-flopping...Just Like Some Opportunistic Dem With No Backbone."

Selah.

The Choice

Bottom line: You have 2 choices, Obama or McCain. If you can't see a difference then don't bother to vote, because you might vote for McCain.

You have 2 choices

Why not ??? http://www.runcynthiarun.org/ Cynthia McKinney also !

I agree

Thank god for reasoned logic. Listen, I've been angst-ridden as well about the FISA bill and Obama's willingness to let that one go through. Add to that his comments regarding the Supreme Court rulings on child rape/capital punishment and the latest gun debacle in DC. But I also follow the rightwing websites like TownHall.com, and I know what those guys are pressing on in regard to Obama. They are chomping at the bit to focus on perceived "weaknesses" that they can harp and distort ad nauseum. They've even posted on their blog vicious little commentaries speculating on how Obama will react to the rulings - which are never cast in his favor, BUT they have been shut down when he doesn't necessarily "do" the liberal thing like they forewarn about. He IS confusing them. They resort to laughable attacks and mindless, transparent spinning. This is a position they should be locked into by the Obama campaign right through November. I would LOVE to see a more liberal Obama stand firm on these issues, but the reality in this election is that there are STILL so many who are cowed by the Rovian talking points and perceived "weakness" of the Democratic Party. Part of the problem is that our party does NOT stand up against this kind of crap, and they capitulate. I'm hoping that changes too. But like PM, I think we've got to step back and let Obama lead - and hopefully right out of this mess the Bush administration has made. We've got no other choice, do we?

Nutmeg, the "weakness" is his flip-flopping on FISA

"I oppose the telecom immunity provision - but I'll vote for the bill anyway" - is that how you perceive "strength"? I'm sorry, but that's like Bill Clinton bending over for the Telecom Deregulation and Defense of Marriage Acts - it's an obvious pander that will only energize the Right, and shatter the idealistic new voters Obama needs to win, by proving that he is Just Another Spineless Dem w/No Principles. Whether it's true or not is immaterial, b/c that is how the Right and MSM will spin it.

I like Obama for being pragmatic but principled - but I fail to see how caving on FISA and telecom immunity is either. I predict that this will come back to haunt him in the same way voting for the Iraq and Iran Wars came back to haunt Hillary - and this is very likely the vote that will cost him the 2008 election, b/c the one lesson the Right learned that the Dems have yet to is that in the end, what Jonathan Alter's "low-information voters" respect is strength and consistency.

I believe in him, tho

I just have this hope and a sense that THIS time we have a candidate who is pulling a fast one on the opposing team, and not his base. I admit that his cave on FISA in every way might indicate that Obama may just be too far to the right for my comfort. Maybe. And I STILL believe John Edwards was the best candidate in this primary, but I am firmly behind Obama - for several reasons. First, he is most definitely calling out the McCain camp on virtually every smear they are pulling out. Unlike Kerry, Obama seems quite capable of showing strength and a firm hand when dealing with this stuff. He acts like a President, not a candidate. I think that's a plus. Second, I honestly am counting on Obama to be the kind of man who he SEEMS to be (and we know Bush and McSame aren't) - and that is someone willing to listen to all arguments and make decisions armed with different perspectives and input. He strikes me as a thinker and a listener, and good god, we need both. I am hoping that with a stacked House and Senate, he will have the room to breathe, and to show us that he can and will work for the people of this country. But the caveat here is that we will have to lean on the Democratic Party every step of the way. Third, again this is just my intuition working here, I feel he is a man who actually cares more about the country than the moneyed special interests. I do. And finally, if he incorporates Edwards into his administration, I will be able to sort of forgive him for the FISA thing.

Of course we will support

Of course we will support him, and the best thing intelligent Americans can do for Obama is call him out as the LESSER OF TWO EVILS that he is, each time he does something that is wrong. The whole point of Obama doing a few things wrong like Fisa, is to draw the fire of intelligent Americans. When intelligent Americans attack Obama, it is very re-assuring to Americans of less intelligence that Obama might be able to relate to them.

Excellent point...

Thanks!

Of course not

Obama has promised to keep young men and women dying in Iraq. Obama has promised instead of single-payer that families will by law have to send thousands of dollars a month to pad insurance CEOs' golden parachutes - that's even worse than the broken system we have now. Obama supports starving tens of millions of third world children so that his buddies can rake in ethanol subsidies. And he's MIA when it comes to holding Cheney and the Telcos accountable.

I will never vote for a traitorous neocon - I don't care which party he belongs to. At this point in history, the Dims and Repugs are two wings of the fascist party. Neither deserves a vote or a donation.

The Democrats need to clean house - starting with the DLC and the party surrender-leaders. If they don't, more and more people will vote third party until eventually - perhaps years from now - the stinking mess of one-party corporate Washington is cleaned out.

Third party?

Unless this democracy receives a huge infusion of responsible media behavior, informed and involved citizenship, and my-country-is-more-important-than-my-personal-convenience patriotism, I doubt the concept of democracy survives long enough for a viable third party to take root and grow into a serious threat. It's barely recognizable now.

Will there be a "years from

Will there be a "years from now?"

I do so seriously have my doubts.

In my darker moments, I think that the only way to remedy our corrupt system is to start handing out the guns.

Hmmmm. Maybe that SCOTUS decision will come in handy....

Obama and FISA

Personally, I tend to trust Senator Obama's motives--and yes, we do have to get him into office to find out whether that trust was misplaced or not. And yes again, putting him in office will involve getting the votes of tens of millions of people who get all of their information from network news and anonymously sourced chain e-mails.

Still and all, progressives or not, we must keep our political eyes open to the allure of power--we must not be pollyannas who can see only the silver linings around the clouds. Politicians seek power, for good or for bad. While our Founders lived and died long before Lord Acton famously remarked that "power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely," they were clearly well versed in the concept and designed our whole system of government to counteract not the possibility, but the absolute certainty, that unchecked power will be sought after and abused once had.

But it's not just having power that corrupts, or enables the already corrupt--the mere prospect of acquiring power has the same effect. So--to the point--it's occurred to me that this Congress's failure to do anything serious about Mr. Bush's power grabbing has to do with wanting that unchecked power for themselves. Maybe at the outset of this Congress in 2006, they confronted a choice. First, they could take Mr. Bush down, necessarily weakening the Imperial Presidency in the process, then watch as the Republicans systematically exploited that weakness to hobble the new Democratic president as they hobbled Clinton. Or second, they could thank their lucky stars that the Republicans had entrusted their own attempted coup to a strutting, self-absorbed fool; bide their time without provoking a polarizing crisis; and wrest that power from his clumsy grip intact.

Can we trust them with that power? Of course not. Nobody can be trusted with it--not you, not me. On the other hand, if they succeed, there's always the hope that they will use the power to hammer progressive policies into place unimpeded by Republican obstructionism--perhaps to bury the Republican dragon once and for all. Bill Clinton, after all, was very possibly as corrupt an individual as George W. Bush--but he actually played the game with an eye toward policy and effective government, whereas for Mr. Bush power is an end in itself.

If the Democrats do have their eye on that unchecked power, and do manage to acquire it, perhaps there will be some red meat thrown to the citizens. I have to admit that it would be fun to watch Mr. Bush, in shackles, loaded aboard a rendition flight for Syria or the Balkans--while his own legal rationales for the power to put him on that plane are read aloud. It would be fun to watch an exhausted and disheveled Ann Coulter struggling to keep her baggy inmate's pants up as she defended cheerleading the deaths of 4,000 American soldiers before a military tribunal, never to be informed of the specific charges or evidence against her--each session to be introduced with one of her own columns urging exactly that kind of justice on others.

Sooner or later, though, red meat or no red meat, the purpose of that power would turn out to be what it's always been: first, perpetuating and expanding itself, and second, working to benefit its possessors. At that point, it doesn't matter whether the power belongs to "Republicans" or "Democrats," or even whether the system of government be "democracy," fascism, or communism--any government dependent on the whim of a single individual is like any other such government.

On balance, the hope that they're just waiting for a large enough congressional majority and a sympathetic president to rein in the executive branch is just attractive enough to stifle my fears that one way or the other, the people of these United States are screwed--that by their negligence and indifference, they've left an imperial crown lying around, and the only question now is who picks it up and puts it on.

Robert Crawford

interesting thoughts

Call me crazy, but this makes a great deal of sense to me.

Get A Clue

The FISA bill sucks, no question about. But it passed the house with 70% of the votes cast. The attempt to fillibuster in the Senate went down 80-15. Obama had a 0% chance of stopping this, but some progressives are crying like babies because he didn't make a purely symobolic stand that almost certainly would have damaged his chances to get elected. Maybe we should all vote for Nader so we can screw ourselves again the way we did in 2000. Yeah, that'd be REALLY kewl!

Obama blew it

Obama blew it. He had the chance to be a strong leader. He had the chance to stand up for the US Constitution. But he's just another DLC surrender monkey like Weak Reid and Neocon Nancy.

Great speaker though - maybe he should be playing Hamlet instead of protecting Soviet Cheney and the Telco Traitors.

Quit blaming Ralph Nader

Al Gore won in Florida in 2000. Ralph Nader's 90,000 votes had nothing to do with the fact that Al Gore should have asked for a recount of all the votes in Florida instead of just some of them. Quit trying to blame Nader for the Democrats weak showing in elections. Who do you plan to blame it on this year when the Democrats track so far to the right that they lose all thier progressive support AGAIN?

Ralph...

...had every right to run in 2000. Who could have guessed this outcome? But by 2004 and now in 2008, in the face of the facts of the disaster that resulted from the 2000 election, Nader is only a demagogue working against his and his country's interests / survival. As for those 90,000 votes cast for Nader in Florida, Bush was up by less than 300 votes when the Supreme Court called it quits and crowned him King. So it's clear most of those 90,000 Nader votes would have gone to Gore and thus avoided the last 8 years of hell this country has experienced as a result.

I hate it but...

We hate the DLC but we need them to win. SIGH! You really think all those Repubs really liked the evangelicals they courted. Yeah right... I think when Obama is elected and Fiengold gets in there to fight the good fight, Obama will not resist.

Get real.

John McCain out-polls Obama on national security. It's his only advantage. Swift-boaters are waiting in the wings, and corporate media are readying the catapults. Any other questions?

Oh Well

Well, I guess since we can't have everything we want and we're ready to trash the best thing to come along in my adult lifetime (I'm 52), then I guess I better start investigating what I need to do to be able to move to Canada because you all are going to make sure that McCain gets elected. Thanks :-/ Are we really that stupid? Stop pissin' and moanin' and get on Obama's website and demand that he make a speech about that decision that calms everybody down. Do Something. Make him justify his position and tell us why he isn't being a Bush lackey on this one. We need an old fashioned Russert grilling on his butt for this. And why hasn't any organization raised any funds to send Nancy Pelosi crates full of peaches for whatever table she has in her office or home? Why isn't Dennis Kucinich not trying to impeach Pelosi for obstruction of justice? By the way Buzzflash, I hate that your program eliminates my formatting!!!!!

You are not paying attention

If Barrack Obama is "the best thing to come along in you lifetime" then you are naive and easily impressed with empty rhetoric. When you find out the truth about him, your head will surely spin right off your neck. Obama is a good speech maker, but he never really says anything. The truth is that Obama is really a Republican who:

1. voted for the Patriot Act

2. led the way to stop the filibuster on Samuel Alito

3. voted to confirm Condoleezze Rice

4. led the fight to end the filibuster and pass the new FISA, which gives immunity to Bush and Cheney as well as the Telecoms

5. joined Republicans in voting to build 700 miles of double fencing on the Mexican border

6. supports the death penalty

7. opposes single-payer health care

8. wants to increase the military by 100,000 troops and he plans to move troops from Iraq to Afghanistan, merely changing the war rather than ending it

9. voted for Dick Cheney's 2005 Energy

Yeah, that's just what we need: another sugar-coated speech from Obama to bamboozle us into supporting whatever turncoat thing he does.

Checking some of these out

I get so tired of people not really investigating whether something is true or not.. check this out with regard to #3 above.. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/19/175637/447 I don't really agree with everything in this blog post but he makes a good point.

Is this just blather or...

...do you have references, a link to the senate page that confirms what you are saying?

Why is Obama supporters have no idea of his policies?

I disagree with #2. Obama said he was in favor of filibuster, then that he was against "procedural maneuvers" and would only vote for it reluctantly. He didn't actively oppose the filibuster but his limp position and lack of leadership helped to undermine the filibuster.

For the rest, check out Obama's awful pro-neocon voting record:

http://obama.senate.gov/votes/

I remember you....

....that ardent Hillary backer...it all makes sense now.

correction

s/b "Why is DK not trying.."

Why is this corporatist blogger here?

Why is this corporatist blogger pushing DLC/neocon spin on Buzzflash?

A strong leader stands up for the one thing that makes the US the fountain of liberty - the US Constitution.

A weak leader follows DLC/neocon advice, surrenders to the wingnuts, and follows Gore and Kerry into the history books.

Definition of sycophant

Look up "sycophant" in the dictionary and you will find a picture of P.M. Carpenter.

sycophant (s?k'?-f?nt, s?'k?-)

n.

A servile self-seeker who attempts to win favor by flattering influential people.

Once Obama's In Office Will He Be An Agent Of Progress?

"Based on?" "His record as a community activist." "Anything else?" "His vote against giving President Bush permission to attack Iran." "What about his vote on the FISA bill?" "A cave-in to the fear-mongers." "As our president will he still be caving-in?" "Hopefully not." "Hope? What good that?" "Then his promise to be an instrument of change." "But can he be trusted?" "Yes, If he speaks out against an Iran War." "And if he doesn't?" "There's Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader."

yeah, but...

Perhaps you underestimate whether progressives "get it" or not. As a progressive--and as someone who reads quite a bit--sure, I get it. And I give the benefit of the doubt to the progressive bloggers out there--maybe they read as much as I do, maybe they trust their intelligence. But perhaps the argument you present is misplaced, overall (later?). Right now, Obama has my vote. I can't see voting for McCain. However, also right now the red flags are surfacing. I'm fine with Obama's decision on campaign financing. Not a red flag. Yet...his backing of the FISA bill (even if it does restore the 4th Amendment--and even if it does negate a strategy to be used against him by the GOP) has raised one flag. Then there was his statement yesterday that he didn't agree with the Supreme Court's decision re: the death penalty and punishment fitting the crime. Another red flag because as a progressive I don't believe in the death penalty. Period. For any reason. These two recent things have changed my feelings about him. Even more importantly, for him, maybe, is that I had thought about being one of the million plus to send in money for his campaign. That's changed. He won't get my money. I work too hard for it. So will he lose money from progressives like me but pick up money from Indies and Centrists? Maybe. I only know I'm not sending him money. And let's say for a moment that from now until oh, three or four years from now, he does things like appoint a Republican as a VP candidate or maybe a clear corporate shill as VP (like Sam Nunn) and later say something about a woman should not have the right to choose what to do with an "unborn human being" or say that we have to keep our bases in Iraq, etc. Then what? He may well gain the presidency, and with my vote, but if the future only gives us more of the same, then my vote for change would not have been truthful.

Remember the acrimony around

Remember the acrimony around here and other progressive websites during the Obama/Clinton conflict?

Where have all the Clintonites gone?

Now they seem to be Naderites declaiming that since Obama won't stand for their and only their platform, they're voting third party.

Interesting. If Obama acted according to their wishes, he'd lose.

If enough people vote third party, he'd lose.

Which means McCain wins and we all get a front row center seat for the final Grande Opera.

Isn't this all very interesting? You finally get a Democrat smart enough to beat the Repubs at their own game and... and...

All the sudden Obama is a fascist, war mongering, small business taxing and on and on and on and on.

I smell a flea ridden freeper rat.

Alter was good.

And you could see Keith biting his lip from time to time, knowing that the progressive blogosphere has to grow up on political tactics. I liked Alter's line..."there are 130 million voters out there and most are low information citizens, not even aware of these issues yet." But you can be sure they will respond to GOP smear-mongers who are trying like all hell to paste something "un-American" on Barack, anything considered "weak".

The flag pin, Rev. Wright, Ayers, and his name have lost their punch. They would love to use the race card more, but they're smart enough to know how that will backfire on them. They were surprised that Barack would be this aggressive on refusing the government's $85 Million for campaigning...and that one isn't getting any negative traction either. So Barack's got his $300M+ war chest and they've got nothing that will stick. So they would love to go after him on defense, terrorism, etc. I was amused at Dennis Miller's evident frustration at this problem. He labeled Barack as being "tedious" - imagine that from a guy whose jokes all have 2 minute long, derivative punchlines that require dictionaries to get.

Alter also pointed out that the FISA bill expired last year and so the government has a defense to actually continue to act illegally until something takes its place. Also, read Barack's written statement of June 20th regarding the House FISA bill - he goes after the telecom retroactive immunity and pledges to fight it....

Keep it up PM.

Obama for what?

i just love watching you guys explaining why deviousness is good.How we must lie to get things done.It is like you were justifying GW Bush instead of the Democratic candidate.And that is not "Politics as Usual." This is the new politics.The Death Penalty should be extended to child molesters and rapists. What next?The Rev.Wright was correct. This fellow will say anything to get elected.

Keep that Obama "slack" handy

You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything.

Well, this is two things just this week that we have to believe that Obama is saying and doing but doesn't really mean.

1. forego public financing. -- The only reform we need in politics is to get the special interest money [and the vast totals being spent] out of the campaigns forever. If we level the playing field, then fairness will return. Since 90% of Obama's contributor are under $200, we will never know where his money is coming from. Oh, well, we can just hold or breath and hope that Obama is doing the right thing. He says that he is a Democrat and that he is doing the right thing. George Bush told us he was doing the right thing and everybody believed him. So that will probably work out really well.

2. vote for telecom (and Bush/Cheney) immunity because we don't want to be mean to Bush -- and the bill contains a ten cent raise in the minumum wage that goes into effect in 20 years or some such hogwash.

3. Oops, make that three things in just one week (so far). He is for the death penalty and he is for extending it to crimes other than murder [an eye for an eye]

Shall we take bets on what his next capitulation to the right wing will be? He is filp flopping so fast that it is hard to for those who would excuse him for expedience to keep up. Keep cutting the slack for Obama even though you were not willing to cut Hillary Clinton any slack to express centrist opinions that might get her elected in November.

FISA

I am sick and tired of being betrayed by my supposed friends ! Starting with Ted Kennedy and Howard Cannon with airline deregulation, through Harry Reid and the bankruptcy fiasco and since the "2006 end the war" election with pelosie,reid, and the rest of my "FRIENDS" feeding me more bushit !!! Why don't they all let Dennis Kucinich and Wexler run the House And Wyden and Byrd run the senate ???? I'm just sick of years of betrayals and I'm yellow dog union democrat through and through ! I may have to vote for NADAR The heroes who voted against it: Not one f**king repugliKKKan ! NAYs ---15 Biden (D-DE) Boxer (D-CA) Brown (D-OH) Cantwell (D-WA) Dodd (D-CT) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Harkin (D-IA) Kerry (D-MA) Lautenberg (D-NJ) Leahy (D-VT) Menendez (D-NJ) Sanders (I-VT) Schumer (D-NY) Wyden (D-OR) The zeroes who betrayed us : I'm sick and tired of being betrayed by "MY FRIENDS" !!!!! YEAs Reid (D-NV) Ensign (R-NV) Not Voting - 5 Red equals low life traitors who deserve to roast in hell ! All three are the same bushit phonies ! Byrd (D-WV) Clinton (D-NY) Kennedy (D-MA) McCain (R-AZ) Obama (D-IL)

Good research

But winning is better than whining - it really is.

Don't loose your patience yet, and don't waste your vote on Nader, even though he's usually right. He's a prophet, not a politician. The two don't mix at all. FDR was a great politician, but certainly not a righteous prophet. Yet he instituted at least as much change as those famous 1930s vintage labor union leaders, maybe more.

Barack is the way back...he's not the end of the road. Back to Churchill's wisdom.."The Battle of Britain was not the beginning of the end, but the end of the beginning"...

We have to stop this one-party state

Assuming I was dumb enough to vote for the lesser of two evils, I would have a real hard time figuring out which to choose. Both will continue the Iraq slaughter. Obama is pro-death penalty. His health plan is worse than McSame's and worse than what we have now. Obama supports ethanol subsidies for corporate ag and to hell with tens of millions of starving third-world children. He wants to increase the size of the military even more! And he's consistently voted to give Cheney unconstitutional powers and to protect Cheney and the Telcos from justice.

But voting for the lesser of two evils is not the way to win. It's the way to ensure that neocons win ... either a Dim neocon or a Repug neocon.

The only way to clean up Washington is to vote against evil. Unless and until the Dims get smart and throw out the DLC traitors, the only honorable vote is third party.

The only situation where...

...a third party vote from a progressive in 2008 is justified would be in a solid blue state. This way you can express your liberal sentiments to the winner, and potentially not threaten Barack's chances of winning.

However, for argument's sake, if say, 10,000 other disenchangted and normally democratic voters do the same in choosing Nader, and McMad wins in your Blue state by, say, 9,990 votes, well then that would be a real bitch... So it's the dilemma of 2000 in Florida all over again, and it's not Like the 2000 election, it is the 2000 election - where Nader's votes would have made the difference. Sure there were other factors such as Gore's weak campaign, Bush's cheating, Supreme Court intervention, etc. etc. - but Bush was ahead by a mere 250 or so votes when the Supreme Court stopped it and declared Shrub King. 250 VOTES!! I imagine more than 250 people in Florida voted for Nader....
ets say

However, if you feel that Barack and McMad are two sides of the same coin, then you're like the guy who can't tell the difference between poison and poison ivy, the kind who would throw out an rough diamond because it lacked cut facets and didn't look just like you imagined. Or more like the child that refuses to play ball and turns tail home because he didn't get picked shortstop.

You seem to be a DLC neocon rather than a Progressive

You just don't get it do you? This is not about baseball teams. We have no preference for blue-shirted fascists over red-shirted fascists. That kind of thinking gave us Weak Reid and Neocon Nancy and Lying Lieberman.

Progressives work for progressive issues. We don't vote for candidates who want to increase the military, starve millions to protect ethanol subsidies, spy on Americans without warrants, and drive families into financial ruin to boost corporate insurance profits.

The only way to progress is to vote for progressive candidates. We won't throw away our votes on the lesser of two neocons, no matter what color his or her shirt.

Do you plan to celebrate on the basis that you marked your X against neocon A rather than neocon B? Nobody gives a rats ass which neocon you voted for. Progressives can hold their heads high knowing that they voted progressive.

The choice is simple - several more years of fascism until enough people vote third party, or permanent fascism as dumb voters alternate between the Dim and Repug wings of the fascist party.

Sure, go ahead and vote for Nader

Its a free country. Then you may hold your swollen head high in your mirror and bask in your narcissistic self-aggrandizement and silly petulance over keeping some arcane notion of political purity at the expense of real change. The rest of us progressives and 'other' Democratic voters will roll up our sleeves and keep working to make positive 'incremental' changes so one day our children and perhaps even we may enjoy something of that great society earlier Democrats made possible but lost to Republicans and marginalized "Puritan" clowns.

So if I understand your stated “theory”, you want McMad to win, since another 4 or 8 years of Bush 44 only serves to hasten the day when the skies part and St. Ralph descends upon 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the DLC and whoever else you cannot tolerate, will be shipped to some left wing hell (I'm sure a Bush 44 president will vastly expand GITMO in 8 years).

But as usual, these fantastic theories don't hold up...Why, you ask? Because another 4+ years of GOP rule under Dr. Stranglove McCain will end the democracy....but then that's the goal of all absolutists. Why you’re no better than a right-wing dominionist wacko, just wistling a differnt tune.

Please don't pretend you're Progressive

Progressives don't vote for wingnuts who want to force families to subsidize insurance CEOs.

Progressives don't vote for wingnuts who want ethanol subsidies despite mass starvation.

Progressives don't vote for wingnuts who protect Cheney and the Telco Traitors.

Progressives don't vote for wingnuts who want the death penalty for rape.

Progressives don't vote for wingnuts who want even larger military.

Progressives do uphold the Constitution against enemies both neocon and DLC.

You are not a Progressive, Will B. Whether you're a DLC drone or a neocon nut I can't tell - the only difference is the shirt color.