When Left and Right Come and Reason Together

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

You know that whatever progressives may merely suspect is a bad idea is indeed a genuinely bad idea when even right wingers of both sexes agree that, sure enough, it's a really bad idea.

Such is the case of Hillary Clinton as Barack Obama's running mate; and yesterday, two scribblers from the right -- George Will and Peggy Noonan, writers not infrequently way, way over there on the right -- acted as amici curiae to the progressive court in presenting outstanding briefs against it.

Before visiting parts of their unusually cogent arguments, I'll say this much on my own behalf about all the talk of late of what it is that Mr. Obama now owes Mrs. Clinton. And what he owes her is this: nothing.

Obama can't say that, but I can.

Had Hillary retreated at an appropriate time -- when, that is, Obama's nomination was mathematically certain; had she never so reprehensibly wielded a GOP-usable axe on videotape against Obama; and had she properly acknowledged the historic watershed of a major political party having, after 400 years of racial injustice, nominated a man of African descent for the nation's highest office on the night of that man's de facto nomination -- maybe, just maybe, Obama would have owed something to Clinton.

But not now. It's far too late, and any material offerings from Obama in the face of such personal abuse and disrespect would, in time, be correctly perceived by the general electorate as the worst sort of unmanly and desperate weakness -- scarcely the kind of image he can afford to project against a bona fide war hero.

But, I hear you cry, it's not about Hillary, it's about her loyalists and the harm they could do if left unplacated. Enter Ms. Noonan, whose counterargument is not only persuasive, but historically accurate:

As for reports of their rage, there are always dead-enders, and frantic lovers of this candidate or that. This goes under the larger heading "lonely people." But there's reason to think, and some Democratic insiders do think it, that a lot of the supposed pro-Clinton furor is ginned up on Web sites by the Clinton campaign, and even manufactured by the Clinton campaign, to prove Clinton loyalists are real and their demands must be met.

There are authentic "dead-enders" for sure, yet by definition there is nothing Obama could ever do to appease them. So let them be. Perhaps they lie in wait in significant numbers, perhaps they don't. There's no way to know with any absolute certainty. We'll learn that in November. That's just the way it is, and Obama must work around it -- but history suggests there are far fewer than what Hillary suggests.

And some who now fancy themselves as ultimate members of the loyal dead-end club undoubtedly will come around to realizing the insult implied in Noonan's other observation: Hillary "doesn't have 18 million voters, she got 18 million votes. It is telling the way she thinks of them, as if they are working-class automatons awaiting her command."

Mr. Will wrote a similarly devastating critique of the Hillary-as-veep idea, noting many of the by-now familiar objections. But two of them I thought he worded with exquisite poignancy, worthy of repetition here. First, with respect to the future, there is

the dotty idea that Barack Obama should choose to have Hillary Clinton down the hall in the West Wing, nursing her disappointments, her grievances and her future presidential ambitions while her excitable husband wanders in the wings of America's political theater with his increasingly Vesuvian temper, his proclivity for verbal fender benders and his interesting business associates.

And second, with respect to the present:

Behind the idea that Obama should run in harness with Clinton is this wobbly theory: Because the Republican Party is in such bad odor, if you unify the Democratic Party, that will suffice to win the election, and she is a necessary and sufficient catalyst of unity. But she is neither. She would be a potent unifier of John McCain's party, thereby setting the stage for exactly what the nation does not need: another angry campaign of mere mobilization rather than persuasion.

Put another way, voters don't vote for a vice presidential candidate, but in this case, some voters sure might vote against one.

Hillary can say what she likes in her wretchedly belated concession speech today, but I suspect what Obama recommended in their doublesupersecret meeting the other night was this: Please, just go away. Oh, you might pop your head out the door now and then and tell the press you like me lots and intend to vote for me, but other than that, just go away. Please. In the last five months you've done the party nothing but harm, your ego-easing sights in 2008 on the 2012 election could continue to do the party harm if left unchecked, and I can't afford your self-absorbed presence any longer -- particularly, God forbid, as my running mate. In short, I can't afford your use of my campaign as a vehicle to make amends with my base.

Shucks, Hillary, even some of the more disinterested and -- in this instance, I think -- honestly objective conservatives see the sense in that.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

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I wouldn't call McCain a war criminal.

Many of us served in Vietnam and other parts of Southeast Asia because the government said we had to do it. The war criminals would be the ones who sent us there under false pretenses. Now, let's get to the current day. I wouldn't call McCain a hero either. I would respect his service and wish him well on his recovery from injuries sustained while in captivity. He obviously didn't learn much from his wartime experiences because he is willing to place our current solder force in harms way in an illegal conflict. McCain didn't create policy. He was an everyday military pilot who was shot down over enemy territory. To me, that qualifies him to be 'Commander and Chief' of our armed forces about as much as my 7 years flying F-4s in the USAF would qualify me. A true hero is one who puts the welfare of others above his/her personal well being. We need a leader who makes decisions based facts without regard to political outcome. This year we have a chance to elect a president whose only obligation is to the American people. I don't expect that I will agree with everything Obama does but that's OK. The international community sees a chance for the United States to change direction and looks forward to having Obama in the White House on January 20, 2009. Let's elect a president who will bring this country back into good standing in a world that needs our leadership.

We Don't Have To Talk About Hillary Clinton No More

"Why not?" "She's history." "And us?" "We're making history."

Hillary's Veep Stump Speech

I was outraged at Clinton's continuing denial to recognize the truth of the situation and use this opportunity to mollify the rabid emotions of her supporters that she has riled up for months. On the surface, she did the minimum required, but this was not concession, this was a Vice Presidential stump speech. Every turn was an obvious linking of the two campaigns, not a validation of his. She stepped on his neck while claiming the right to run along side him. Sent to Obama: I just hope you are as brilliant as I observe you to be and realize that putting Clinton on the ticket would not unify the party, but would HARDEN the split and carry it through the campaign. This would be a disaster. Please don’t do it! Send to Clinton: I was deeply disappointed in your "Vice Presidential" stump speech. It had nothing to do with healing the division in the party, and, instead, continued the drumbeat that you are brilliant, strongly competitive, in control of an angry mob, and entitled. You did not emphasize the qualities of our nominee, or encourage your supporters to support him NO MATTER WHAT HIS CHOICES, only talked about yourself and your next ambition. I am so angry at you I will never vote for you again. Please go away. As a 65 year old woman in New York, I am ashamed that you still don't get it! Obama is the true feminist in this struggle. You do not understand the need for healing and kindness in acceptance.

WTF?

Okay... I'm just about the biggest Obama supporter around.

I heard a brilliant speech in which Hillary painted a clear portrait to her supporters: vote for Obama, or vote for a step backwards. She talked about Obama's beginnings, how he's making history, how we MUST unite.

Excuse me, but what exactly did she miss today?

Let's not forget, the woman ran a long campaign and wanted to hit quite a few notes - I thought she was fantastic. As an Obama supporter, I can say that I was truly proud of Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, and the ability of our party to unify to defeat a common foe - McTurd.

her concession?

Let's be real here, Hillary did not offer a total concession to Obama on Saturday. If you listen closely, every plea of support for Obama was cloaked in her being by his side. She was giving her Vice Presidential Stump speech a trial run. She didn't get off the ladder, but merely stepped down a rung. She is still keeping her angry mob in reserve, and they will surely erupt again if he doesn't offer her the Veep slot - a move that would be, in my opinion, a disastrous mistake. Too much praise for her, too early - she can still do a good deal of harm and has to be handled very carefully. You know the story about the frog and the scorpion, don't you?

"If you listen closely" ....

.... and play her speech backwards, she's says "I am a racist, Neo-con, devil" in an ancient Mandarin dialect, over and over and over ............

So it wasn't just me, limocro?

I know most people are calling Hillary's speech today "Brilliant", "Gracious" and "Electrifying" - but what I got from it was, "It really IS All About You, Isn't It?"

My response exactly

She didn't get off the ladder, simply stepped down a rung. (see above)

Peggy Noonan - Right AGAIN?!? WHAT is the World Coming To?

It's really interesting that, when it comes to comprehending the Hillary Clinton's and her supporters' narcissistic self-delusion (Gloria Steinem wrote in a recent NY TIMES Op-ed supporting Hillary that women have it worse than Blacks - Way to Bring the Tribes Together, Gloria!), Peggy Noonan is often frighteningly spot-on. If I were being uncharitable (which I often am), I would say that's b/c Noonan is so much like that herself that she groks The Hillary Moment in fullness - but since she doesn't have a horse in this particular race (her horse is presently combating a terminal case of Foot-in-Mouth Disease with the aid of Dr. Brownose Lieberman) she can write about it without getting swallowed up in The Moment.

I don't know who Obama should choose as his running mate, and I wouldn't presume to tell him. But I firmly believe, as PM does, that he absolutely, positively should not choose Hillary "I am sore loser" Clinton - who even in conceding, can't QUITE let go of her dream that Obama Will Somehow Screw Up or Die (paragraph of Clinton "kept some options open" in the middle of the AP story Yahoo News linked to). She brought too many negatives w/her coming in (mainly the undying irrational hatred of the Right and Rightward-Leaning Independents) - and in the sleazy, racist way she ran her campaign, she also succeeded in alienating a lot of us who once supported her.

Hillary's Future

We weren't totally pleased with either Hillary or Barack. We preferred someone more progressive, but there seem to be many hopes and dreams that we have to put on the shelf each political season. We voted for Hillary. The spectre of ANY republican taking the White House this year is anathema, particularly when one thinks of the effect it would have on the Supreme Court. The logical place for Hillary is the Supreme Court. She has the legal qualifications and experience. She resonates with groups of Americans who have certainly been slighted by the Court in recent years, and she could earn a lasting and creditable place in history. Bill could go fish, or start something like Jimmy Carter did and earn the warm regard of his fellow citizens. It isn't all about money. That's what being a Democrat is really about.

Hillary's too "Centrist" To Be a Good Supreme Court Justice IMO

I'd rather see the Court stacked w/hardcore Libertarians shoving Absolute Freedom of Speech, Expression, Thought and Deed down the Khrister Right's and p.c. Left's throats at EVERY opportunity! Death to The Nanny State - the REAL UnAmerican! :) :) :)

I wish I could feel that Hillary was capable of using her intelligence and pugnacity against The Entrenched Corporatist Right, rather than against us Progressives as she's consistently done - from WalMart lawyer to health care debacle to repeatedly attacking Obama while praising McCain. She, as much as Holy Joe the Quisling Lieberman, really IS the DLC Poster Child - which looks a lot like Quark the Ferengi from STAR TREK: DEEP SPACE NINE, now that I look at it....

McCain's no hero.

A hero is someone who makes a conscious decision to place their own life or well being subordinate to an another's McCain did absolutely nothing in this regard. He made no decision to help another, or even his country after he was shot down. My wife is British. Her father served in the Pacific in WW22. He was captured by the Japanese, and as a POW was actually horrifically tortured, not the discomfort McCain went through. He and his veteran buddies are offended that anyone like McCain would be called a "hero." They call themselves "survivors" or "victims." McCain is actually a war criminal. He obeyed an illegal order to purposely kill civilians in an illegal war of aggression against a country that did nothing to us. McCain actually has nothing but his military service going for him. It's way pasttime we started peeling off the myth that he's a hero.

Sunrise, sunset

I believe it is highly unlikely that Obama will choose Clinton as his running mate for all the reasons stated above by P.M. . But there is more to it. What we are witnessing now is the sun setting on the corporate wing of the Democratic Party, as embodied in the Clintons and the other dead-enders of the DLC. The people's wing of the party is about to take over, and it is this very development that Hillary has been trying to prevent with her extended, quixotic campaign. For Obama to place her on his ticket would be a step backward; it would tell the corporatists that their time in the sun may not be ending after all. God, in the Bible, may have made the sun stand still, but Obama will not, and should not, attempt that trick. I find it remarkable that so many of Hillary's progressive supporters fail to see this party transformation occurring right before their eyes. The prospect of a woman president has blinded them to something that is of far more transcending importance. Think of it. We, the people, may actually get our country back!

Obama is anti-corporatist?

Don't think so. His economic policies are very similar to HC's. Have you seen his economic advisers? Very centrist, and hardly what most would define as either extremely progressive or anti-corporatist. From "Louis Proyect: The Unrepentant Marxist," who is critical of both Obama's and Clinton's economic plans.

"Although it is not widely understood, Obama is pretty much committed to the neoclassical economics outlook of his home-town University of Chicago. Since becoming Senator, he has relied on the advice of:

Austan Goolsbee
calls himself “a centrist, market economist” (Washington Times, July 16, 2007).
much in the same vein as fellow U. of Chicago neoclassical economist Steven Levitt’s “Freakonomics,” examining everyday problems such as “Why you get stuck for hours at O’Hare.” Most are fairly uncontroversial except for the swipe he took at Michael Moore’s “Sicko”, whose single-payer recommendations violate his free market principles.

David Cutler
Harvard economist who was also an adviser to Bill Clinton.
wrote an article for the New England Journal of Medicine in 2006 asserting that “The rising cost … of health care has been the source of a lot of saber rattling in the media and the public square, without anyone seriously analyzing the benefits gained.”
defends the idea that a powerful and profitable medical industry can serve as an engine of economic growth in the USA as the wretched Gina Kolata reported in the August 22, 2006 NY Times.

Jeffrey Liebman
Harvard economist who co-authored a paper on the feasibility of privatizing social security when he was an adviser to Bill Clinton.
co-authored a book on social security “reform” with Martin Feldstein, another Harvard economist who was–appropriately enough–the chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under Ronald Reagan. In an article titled “The Rich, the Poor, and the Economists” that appeared in the January 2002 Monthly Review, Michael Yates notes the following:

"Of course, they will eventually be disappointed in a Clinton presidency because her economic program and his are virtually identical. In considering the “differences” between the two, I am reminded of what Fred Halstead used to say when he was running for president on the Socialist Workers Party ticket exactly 40 years ago: “Whoever wins the election, the American people will end up the losers.”

The whole article is here. http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/obamas-economic-advisers/

Also see The Nation - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080211/fraser

"Obama's disappointing foreclosure plan stems from the centrist politics of his three chief economic advisers and his campaign's ties to Wall Street institutions opposed to increased financial regulation. David Cutler and Jeffrey Liebman are both Harvard economists who served in the Clinton Administration, and they work on market-oriented solutions to social welfare issues. Cutler advocates improving healthcare through financial incentives; Liebman, the partial privatization of Social Security.

Austan Goolsbee, an economist at the University of Chicago who calls himself a "centrist market economist," has been most directly involved with crafting Obama's subprime agenda. In a column last March in the New York Times, Goolsbee disputed whether "subprime lending was the leading cause of foreclosure problems," touted its benefits for credit-poor minority borrowers and warned that "regulators should be mindful of the potential downside in tightening [the mortgage market] too much."

There's a bunch more, but the idea is that the advisers and the language used by the Obama campaign are very centrist. If people are expecting an economic anti-corporatist revolution, don't hold your collective breathes.

BTW - I liked the whole God/stopping the sun metaphor ........ pretty funny.

Unintentional, though ......... right?

That's not my point.

Obama may or may not turn out to be corporate-friendly, but as his latest directive banning the DNC from accepting money from PACs and lobbyists shows, corporate interests will not be able to buy influence as they previously have. This can only be seen as a step towards re-democratization. I am quite sure that Obama is not a socialist and that he believes in a market economy functioning within limits and with regulation. This is what virtually all Americans want, as well. I have concerns about some of his support for corn-based ethanol and the development of "clean" coal-based energy, as these have the smell of corporate influence, but as president, having now shown that he can raise funds without the help of big-money interests, he may be less inclined to bend their way.

yes

You have it right. Now we need to say it louder.

And unfortunately, the corporate Democrats are not going to go away on their own. Like the neo-cons, they will fall back and hide in foundations, law offices, and all of the other places corporate cockroaches go when you turn the lights on.

We won't get our country back until a large number of people recognize them and recognize what they have done to us. Bill Clinton did not write NAFTA by himself. A lot of dedicated political stooges on both sides of the aisle were responsible.

Do we know their names? Will we recognize them the next time they take their place at the trough?

More often than not George

More often than not George Will makes me growl low and deep from the back of my throat. However, "She would be a potent unifier of John McCain's party, thereby setting the stage for exactly what the nation does not need: another angry campaign of mere mobilization rather than persuasion" is precisely correct, as anyone would know who has even a slight memory of THE WHOLE CLINTON PRESIDENCY.

I also agree that the Clinton Dead Enders make themselves seem larger than reality because they are so damn loud.

Let's not pile on, not now

P.M.--I can't say that I necessarily disagree with your sentiments, but now is not the time to rub salt in the wound. I could write 3000 words easily on which side has the more legitimate grievances (and one of them indeed does), but what's the point after the nomination has been decided? Many of Hillary's supporters see her as a powerful metaphor for their own hopes and desires and dreams and now that dream is over. Let us not wallow in the smugness of victory and righteousness but allow her supporters a decent time to grieve over a sense of real loss. As any good democrat with empathy should, I feel for the women (and men) who had so much invested in her campaign. As far as putting her on the ticket, well, the decision has probably been rendered moot by Bill's decision not to open up his library's financial records. If he makes the decision to do so, I'm sure she will then be considered for veep along with all the other potential candidates. Would she be my first choice? Probably not, but on the other hand, if it looks like she can help him win Florida and Arkansas that will be a powerful argument. I believe Obama should and will give her equal consideration in the interest of winning. But if he can win without her...well, he probably will. But just remember, this primary will be talked about by historians years after we're all gone. They've both made history, and no one can take that away from her, or her supporters.

Couldn't Agree More

Honestly, Hillary would bring nothing to Obama's ticket but distraction. So many have offered that Hillary would bring votes in Appalachia, but that's incorrect as well. Her husband didn't win those white votes when he was President. Hillary being on the ticket wouldn't give you those votes either. You need a VP that really balances the ticket - such as Richardson or Webb. Hillary doesn't bring the anti-war presence that is going to be crucial. She also doesn't give you extensive experience, which is also crucial to balance the ticket. Barack will be far better off with a balanced ticket, and the Democratic party's general election team will be much stronger because of it. Last but not least, let Hillary pay off her own debt - Barack's already going to have to deal with RNC commercials featuring Hillary saying Barack hasn't passed the Commander in Chief test but McCain has. That's enough of a cross to bear for Obama.

That being said...

... Hillary knocked that speech out of the freaking park today! She was phenomenal and I was sincerely proud of the job she did today.

Self-Absorbed presence!

These words give a good impression of not Hillary Clinton but Obama and his cult like supporters! The Obama campaign is a vehicle to race, hate and self absorbed supporters out to take America down! The leftist are now in charge of the Democrats. God Forbid!

Go Vote for McCain-Lieberman, Neva - They're Who You WANT

You and the other diehard Hillary Supporters are the Racist Big Corporate Environment-and-Civil Liberty-Raping Past - and Obama is the Future.

Since you love the past so much - go vote for it, as is your right as a citizen. Don't expect us looking to the Future to treat you w/anything besides contempt when you do, though.....

Maybe you haven't heard.

SHE LOST!!! Get over it, and make arrangements to return to earth. BTW- since their policy positions are 99% the same, how is he a leftist, and she isn't?

Ummm, no.

The Democratic party is, by definition, on the left. Go crawl back into your cave dead-ender.