It's Now Or Never for Superdelegates

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

No doubt there is a motivating element of psychological warfare in play when "GOP strategists mull [a] McCain 'blowout.'" But any sober encounter with basic arithmetic and the potential of chronic Democratic troubles soon makes one realize: They could be right; their "mulling" is not all hype.

It began as the unthinkable, then moved to the merely laughable, and within a couple short months has achieved the status of the plausible -- not just a McCain victory, but his besting of Bush's electoral count in 2004.

As The Politico ventured in its reporting, "It sounds crazy at first." But not really. Certainly not any longer -- not after what Democrats have put themselves through this primary season, which has given "crazy" a whole new dimensional entry in the political dictionary.

Here's how one strategist at the Republican National Committee put it, and, I must concede, in rather reasonable terms:

We’re actually sitting pretty well in most states. There are a lot of scenarios that look good for McCain, and I almost would go so far to say that there are a lot more scenarios [than for Obama]. I don’t think anybody over here wants to let themselves get too excited about it. It is an eternity between now and November. But McCain looks a lot stronger than our prospects as a party.

That final phrase -- "stronger than our prospects as a party" -- is a two-edged sword in Republican wargame scenarios, reflecting, as it does, the very real prospect of widespread GOP blood on the floor for its Congressional candidates, but John McCain's survival of the electoral college's national quiltwork.

Said another strategist on this theme:

The broader environment clearly favors the Democrat. [But] a state-by-state analysis actually makes McCain a narrow favorite to win the Electoral College majority. That would certainly run against the grain of history, if he pulled that off. But it’s also clearly plausible and a manageable outcome partly because of John McCain’s strength among independents and partly because of Obama’s weakness in culture, ideology and association.

Merely tinkering with the preexisting electoral map can send chills down the Democratic spine. To wit, as The Politico figured it:

Add Iowa and Colorado to Obama’s side, since both are considered states Obama could pick off. Then count McCain victories in New Hampshire and Michigan, two states where McCain is competitive. In this scenario, McCain wins the Electoral College 291-246, a larger margin than Bush four years ago. If Obama managed only to win Iowa from Republicans and McCain managed only to win Pennsylvania, McCain would still win by a much greater margin than Bush -- 300-237.

Or, if you prefer not to take the GOP's word for it, then ponder the perhaps even sleeker analysis of Democratic pollster Paul Maslin: "We have to hold Michigan and Pennsylvania. McCain wins one of those states, we are in trouble. They have to hold Florida and Ohio or they are in trouble. The truth about this race [is], this is the year that we shouldn’t lose, and we could lose."

So what's the point of all this early analysis, all this angst before the rush?

Merely to point out to the Democratically confident -- those, that is, who see the lingering primary season as a neutral factor or even a plus, not a negative -- that the GOP is not, in the course of completing its successful arithmetic, counting on any "game-changing event."

Quite the opposite. Republican strategists are, rather, mostly counting on Democrats to be themselves.

Which is to say, for Democrats to let the games proceed as they presently are -- most pointedly, that is, for the party's superdelegates to fail to see the "fierce urgency" of nailing down a numerical nominee now.

Of all the Democratic "party's weaknesses" on which the GOP is resting its hopes, disunity tops the list. Yet disunity cannot be ameliorated until the last internal divider is officially bumped from contention. Only then can effective calls for unity go forth, the wounds begin to heal and those splintered precincts begin to close.

In short, superdelegates are pushing their delicate sense of fairness to the party's breaking point. Two months won't be nearly enough time to overcome settled resentments. It's next week -- en masse and with liberating finality -- or never.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

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Relative Strengths....

Here is the latest break-down from electoral-vote.com... First for Obama vs. McCain:

Obama-McCain Results

and then for Clinton vs. McCain:

Clinton-McCain Results

Some thing else you missed P.M.

From Rear Adm. David Stone:

The Democratic Party has its work cut out for it with Vets if Hillary does not get the Democratic nomination

After visiting American Legion Halls and VFW's across the country, it is very clear that there are two kinds of voters in these establishments. One group is passionate about HRC and the work she has done for Vets and her position against the War and the other group loves McCain and his record of service to country as a POW. From my experience in talking to Vets, Sen. Clinton has a slight edge over McCain. (Approx 6 out of 10 support her) in the American Legion Halls and VFW establishments because of her position on ending the war which most Vets agree with her on, as opposed to McCain who is more aligned with the view of a prolonged presence in Iraq.

Of note, Sen. Obama has zero — repeat zero — traction in the VFW and American Legion Halls. Veterans cite his refusal (until recently) to wear the American Flag pin, the photo where he is shown not saluting the Flag with his hand over his heart, . . . his alleged MoveOn.Org relationship and that organization's innuendo (in an ad) of Gen. Petraeus as a traitor, his relationship with Rev. Wright (who once said "God Damn America" in a sermon), Mrs. Obama's comment about only recently being proud to be an American, and Sen. Obama's recent comment that some people were "bitter" about their economic situation and thus "cling" to guns and religion as a result….

I could go on, but in summary, it is going to be a very steep climb for Sen. Obama with this particular demographic.

For example, I was in an American Legion Hall in Kentucky and the experience provided a classic example of what I am talking about. While speaking to a veteran he told me that Hillary had his vote and he liked where she stood on the key issues. However, he added: "If Hillary doesn't win, don't come back and see me in the fall, because there is no way I will vote for Obama but instead will vote for McCain". The above feedback is reflective of the view of many veterans I have met who seek change from the course that the Bush Administration has us on currently on but are totally against Sen. Obama.

This email is not meant as an "anti-Obama" email but is sent merely to give you a "reality pulse point" on what life is really like today on the ground in the VFW and American Legion Halls across many of the states I have visited. The really bad news is that this is the actual pulse point "before" the actual campaign against the Republican Party starts and the deluge of negative campaign ads about Obama are launched if he is the Democratic nominee. The climate in these Vet establishments will only worsen and solidify once that campaign commences.

So What?

Who cares what the VFW and American Legion think of Obama? These are two of the vilest, most despicable organizations in America. They have been at the forefront of every, right-wing, reactionary movement in the country. They LOVE war, and their service has been the high point of their lives. They have never supported a Democrat in their entire existence, and aren't going to start any time soon. It might be a good idea to find out just exactly who Stone is. I'll bet this is republican propaganda promoting Mrs. Bill Clinton, as she'd be easier for McCain to beat.

Clinton

Responding to a comment below - we should all thank Hillary Clinton immensely. Regardless of what she's said this week or the week prior - she forced the Reverend Wright issue to the forefront. Would you rather have had this come out during the general election, where it could have distracted the voters till the end? Or would you rather have it the way it is - a played out, non-issue at this point? I'll take the latter.

What we can do NOW...

...is register amd mobilize MASSIVE numbers of voters in all 50 states and stress absentee voting for those who can't or won't go out to the polls. Also we can keep exposing the truth about McCain through whatever channels we have. We don't have to wait for the Democratic party to get their act together to start this fight. There IS a fierce urgency, and WE can be the game-changing event the Republicans aren't counting on.

Get to work.

Incredible, drawing upon pure anti-Democratic propaganda, spreading it, even declaring it "reasonable" and effectively lauding it, when it is designed specifically to seem "reasonable" enough to dishearten the reader. Look. We have Michigan and Florida Democrats creating or effectively acquiescing in a primary screw-up; that's it, it's life. Live with it. We have Hillary and Bill being sore losers; that's it, it's life. Live with it. What we must not do is become disheartened, disillusioned, excessively pessimistic, especially as if it were a luxury to do so. We do not have that luxury! If you and everyone else would stop luxuriating and just live with it, we'd be unbeatable, and we'd be a team. To quote Franklin Roosevelt: "[L]et me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days." Your leadership is Barack Obama. Get to work.

National Popular Vote

The real issue is not how well Clinton, Obama, or McCain might do in the closely divided battleground states, but that we shouldn't have battleground states and spectator states in the first place. Every vote in every state should be politically relevant in a presidential election. And, every vote should be equal. We should have a national popular vote for President in which the White House goes to the candidate who gets the most popular votes in all 50 states. The National Popular Vote bill would guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). The bill would take effect only when enacted, in identical form, by states possessing a majority of the electoral votes—that is, enough electoral votes to elect a President (270 of 538). When the bill comes into effect, all the electoral votes from those states would be awarded to the presidential candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states (and DC). The major shortcoming of the current system of electing the President is that presidential candidates have no reason to poll, visit, advertise, organize, campaign, or worry about the voter concerns in states where they are safely ahead or hopelessly behind. The reason for this is the winner-take-all rule which awards all of a state's electoral votes to the candidate who gets the most votes in each separate state. Because of this rule, candidates concentrate their attention on a handful of closely divided "battleground" states. Two-thirds of the visits and money are focused in just six states; 88% on 9 states, and 99% of the money goes to just 16 states. Two-thirds of the states and people are merely spectators to the presidential election. Another shortcoming of the current system is that a candidate can win the Presidency without winning the most popular votes nationwide. The National Popular Vote bill has been approved by 17 legislative chambers (one house in Colorado, Arkansas, Maine, North Carolina, and Washington, and two houses in Maryland, Illinois, Hawaii, California, and Vermont). It has been enacted into law in Hawaii, Illinois, New Jersey, and Maryland. These states have 50 (19%) of the 270 electoral votes needed to bring the law into effect. See http://www.NationalPopularVote.com

The most accurate poll in

The most accurate poll in the 2000 & 2004 General Election. Nice Graphic Map that's easy to read.
You can check Obama/McCain & Clinton/McCain General election electoral votes.

Take heed if you're a true Democrat!!

http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May25.html

Obama Landslide: A Preliminary 2008 True Vote Projection

truthisall.net The GOP media is preparing us for another stolen election. A rational analysis points to an Obama blowout. There is just one very big caveat:ELECTION FRAUD. It's GOP SOP................. Obama Landslide: A Preliminary 2008 True Vote Projection ........... http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/2008ElectionCalculator.htm ............ The 2008 Election Calculator projects that Obama will win the True Vote in a landslide: 71-59m (54.1-44.7%). The model calculates the true vote based on vote shares applied to returning 2004 voters and the allocation of uncounted votes. But election fraud will reduce Obama’s recorded vote margin to 64-61m. ............... The landslide will be denied, just like it was in the 2006 midterms in which the Democrats won 10-20 more seats than official results indicate. Obama is expected to do better than Kerry did in 2004 among blacks, Hispanics, new voters, moderate Republicans and Independents. He may not do as well among other, white Democrats. This analysis is based on an estimate of total votes cast; it does not include the millions of (mostly Democratic) disenfranchised voters. ......... Here is a preview of Obama's landslide.These are the latest RCP pre-election poll averages as of May 23. ............... http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html ......... Note: Obama's lead is beyond the 4% margin of error in 6 of the 19 states. .......... On an EV-weighted average basis, Obama leads by 46.5-42.8% Converting to a 2-party equivalent, Obama leads by 52.1-47.9% ......... From these polls, we can gauge which states are likely to be targeted (and flipped)by the GOP: OH, FL, MI, NH, NM, VA, NC Sound familiar? ............................ In 2000 Al Gore won the recorded vote by 51.0-50.5m (48.4-47.9%). The Election Calculator determined that he won the True Vote by 55.3-51.4m (49.9-46.6%) which closely matched his 49.4% unadjusted aggregate state exit poll share. The U.S. Census reported that 110.8m total votes were cast in 2000 but only 105.4m were recorded. If not for 5.4m uncounted votes, Gore’s margin would have exceeded 3 million. In Florida, 185,000 spoiled ballots (not including absentee and provisional ballots) cost Gore 120,000 votes. He won the state by a minimum of 60,000 votes, but Bush won the recorded vote (and the Presidency) by 537. ...................................... In 2004 Bush won the recorded vote by 62-59m (50.7-48.3%). Once again, the Election Calculator determined that Kerry won the True Vote by 67-57m (53.2-45.4%). Kerry won the unadjusted state exit poll aggregate by 52.1-46.9% and the adjusted 12:22am Composite National Exit Poll by 50.8-48.2%. The analysis was based on 12:22am National Exit Poll vote shares applied to an estimate of returning 2000 voters. The Census reported that 125.7m total votes were cast as opposed to the 122.3m recorded. Approximately 2.5m of the 3.4m discrepancy were Kerry votes. The Census figure was confirmed by investigative reporter Greg Palast who provided government records which indicated that 3.0m uncounted votes were a combination of provisional, absentee and spoiled ballots. ............................................. There is no reason to believe that 2008 will be any different than 2000 and 2004. At least 3% of total votes cast will be uncounted and 75-80% will be Obama’s. Download the Excel file to run your own scenarios: ................. http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/2008ElectionCalculator.xls .................................... The Sensitivity Analysis consists of two sets of tables. They indicate Obama’s vote share and margin for 25 scenario combinations of: 1)Obama’s share of returning Kerry and Bush voters. 2)Obama’s share of returning Kerry and new voters (Did Not Vote in 2004).

Excellent comment, TruthIsAll! Shows need to SHATTER GOP...

Excellent comment, TruthIsAll! Shows need to SHATTER the GOP _MYTH_ that that Right-Wing agenda is popular in America.

First, a note: Please use symbol for LessThan, then BR, then GreaterThan, to get a one line page-BREAK. Use LessThan p GreaterThan to get a new PARAGRAPH. Or google "HTML basics" to pick up on some other good "TAG" tips, which will make your post cleaner and more readable here in Buzzflash's posting system. Here's a good one...

Now, to your comment. Yes, we believe that Gore won by well over a million votes, not the half-million that the major media posts; and Gregg Palast suggests Republicans stole (and trashed) over 5 million votes in the last election... and that Dems will have to beat an EIGHT MILLION VOTE FIX in 2008.

Which just highlights the ABJECT CORRUPTION of Nancy Pelosi, the Speaker of the House, who pretends not to notice all this vote stealing. (Which, if prosecuted and detailed energetically, would lead to massive outrage vs BushCo.)

I would like to propose that Democrats plan and coordinate a massive "I VOTED DEMOCRAT!" pledge or affadavit upon leaving the polling station. This would give a ROCK-BOTTOM bedrock, the minimum number of Democratic votes cast for president and/or Congress at that particular polling site.

This is of course a huge undertaking, but not quite as demanding as launching the American Revolution! /: )

And, finally, it is time once and for all for Americans to BREAK THE MYTHS of Right-Wing propaganda. As far as I'm concerned, any Lying Righties who say that they "Hate SOCIALIZED BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING!" should be BANNED from our public roads and highways - at point of bayonet if necessary! - until they aknowledge that government spending should be the BEST things in America not the worst. (Everything that Righties take for granted - our Apollo rockets and moon landing, our roads and highways, our safe airline travel; their federally insured bank accounts, pensions; tens of millions of jobs created downstream from government spending (i.e. a new shopping plaza and hotels built close to an interstate exit), and of course the Holy of Holies for Righties, OUR MILITARY SPENDING - are ALL SOCIALIZED GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS.)

When Righties screech "Socialized big-government welfare" it is of course CODE for Racism and class war. They don't seem to mind well-connected lobbyists making 6-figure incomes off of the backs of taxpayers; but they will piss and moan and scream if America's schoolchildren are given medical examinations that might prevent a fatal illness taking hold.

The unvarnished Right-Wing agenda harkens back to, not just slavery here in America, but the Cruel EVICTIONS of English, Irish, Scots, and other European (peasants) from their homelands, by brutal and authoritarian absentee landlords and their hired armies.

"TruthIsAll" uses Garbage data

One persons opinion that's been proven wrong over & over again!

WHAT NUMBER DID YOU HAVE IN MIND?
Over on Democratic Underground, the morelocks are getting all excited about the "odds" of the exit polls being wrong. Here's part of what DU member "TruthIsAll" says.

Those are the odds that Kerry's EXIT poll percentage would EXCEED his ACTUAL reported vote percentage by MORE THAN THE
MARGIN OF ERROR in 16 out of 51 States by chance alone. That is exactly what occurred on Nov. 2.

I know that is hard to fathom. But here is the data. And here is the calculation, based on the number of individuals polled in each state and the corresponding Margin of Error (MOE).

The chances of a given state falling outside the MOE = 1/20 =.05. The calculation for the probability that 16 out of 51 states would fall outside the MOE is a simple one which uses the BINOMIAL DISTRIBUTION FUNCTION:

The Probability (P) that at least 16 out of 51 states would deviate beyond the exit poll MOE is:

P = 1-BINOMDIST(16,51,0.05,TRUE)

This returns P= 0.0000000218559% or 1 out of 4,575,415,347!

He then lists the state by state data that he uses.

Sounds pretty damn impressive doesn't it? So does Geordi La Forge but his scientific techno-babble is mostly fiction too.

And who is "TruthIsAll"? Well, you may remember him from the pre-election crowd trying to predict the election. He had a problem though. His inputs and assumptions were bad. He assumed Kerry would get a huge percentage of the undecideds and he ignored pollsters he didn't like (complaining about "corporate" polls). His results reflected his biases.

TruthIsAll's complicated and thorough election simulation predicted a Kerry win, 51.8% to 48.2%, with an electoral victory of 337-201. He pegged the probability of Kerry winning at 99.8%, which is a virtual certainty. And his statistics work with the numbers was probably right on. The problem is the garbage data he used.

And he's right about the odds of polling being outside the margin of error - kinda. If the exit polls were correctly specified, the odds are damn low that 16 states would be screwed up outside the margin of error. But the margin of error concept assumes a truly random sample from your universe. The only way to be sure the exit polls were true random samples, is to sample EVERY precinct and blindly select the voters to be sampled - and every voter so selected would have to both consent to the survey and accurately answer the questions. TruthIsAll assumes that the exit polling was a true, respresentative sample of the national vote, but that the national vote itself was not.

For example, take Florida. TruthIsAll believes the Exit Polling that said Kerry would win with 50.51% of the vote (You have to love that .01% he got in there to show his accuracy). Thus, he has to discount the poll taken in Florida on November 2 (we call it the "election") as well as the majority of polls taken in Florida throughout October, which showed Bush leading by as many as 8%. And despite those polls (positives a Bush lead, negatives are Kerry, here they are 9,5,4,-2,8,3,4,3,-1,3,-1,1,3,0,-3,2,8,3,2,0,-1.6,4,5,4,-3,8,4,-5,1,0 and Kerry did not poll at higher than 50% ever before the election, and at 50% only a handful of times), TruthIsAll calculated - using "statistics" a probability that Kerry would win Florida at 86.49%. No one watching the polls throughout October could have possibly thought Kerry had a greater than 50% chance at Florida.

I calculated a probability of a Bush win in Florida at 63.9%. In Ohio at 53.6%. TruthIsAll pegged Ohio at 86.49% for Kerry. His calculations weren't bad, but his assumptions were. While TruthIsAll predicted Kerry would win with 51.8% of the vote. I predicted Bush with 50.5% (he got 50.9%). TruthIsAll said the electoral college would go 337-201 for Kerry. I said 296-242 for Bush in my composite (I missed Wisconsin where Kerry won by less than 1/2 of a percent), and my election simulation said 285-253 (1 point off!).

Check out Sam Wang and Stuart Theil. Sam Wang's a professor up at Princeton. He didn't ignore data he didn't like and his simulation nailed it. Bush 286, Kerry 252. He also did some assuming (like TruthIsAll) about how "undecideds" would break and got a result similar to TruthIsAll. Kerry 311-227. Stuart Thiel predicted a Bush win of 278-260 (though I don't remember him having these numbers on Nov. 2 - but I could be wrong).

So, TruthIsAll opened up his spreadsheet once again, input bad data and came up with conclusions to establish something for which there is no evidence. That the exit polls were correct and there was wholesale, widespread, historic vote fraud. And the leftfringe is eating it up.

Thomas M evidently believes there was ZERO Bushco fraud in 2004

truthisall.net It is apparent that you believe there was ZERO fraud in 2004. Otherwise, your projections would not have matched the recorded vote. The Election Model projection matched the unadjusted exit polls, before the final state and national exit polls were forced to match the recorded vote. How do you explain the Final National Exit Poll mathematically impossible Voted 2000 Weights? Naysayers claim that it is standard operating procedure to re-weight the exit polls based on the recorded vote. But the Final NEP ‘Voted in 2000’ weights (Bush 43/Gore 37%) were mathematically impossible. Bush 2000 voters could not have comprised 43% of the 122.3m votes recorded in 2004, since 43% of 122.3 is 52.6m and Bush only had 50.5m votes in 2000. Furthermore, since approximately 1.8m Bush 2000 voters died prior to the 2004 election, the maximum number who could have voted in 2004 was 48.7 million, even assuming an impossible 100% turnout. But that's not the end of it. If we assume 96% of 2000 election voters turned out in 2004, then 2 million Bush voters stayed home and only 46.7m actually voted in 2004. Where did Bush find 15.3m new voters (62-46.7)? This physical, incontrovertible mathematical fact totally confounds those who believe the recorded vote was accurate. In the Democratic Underground "Game" thread, since the Final NEP Bush/Gore weights were impossible, true Bush believers had to come up with a new set of feasible weights. But to match the recorded vote, they had to compensate by inflating the Bush NEP vote shares to implausible levels. They had to deal with an inconvenient truth: the Final National Exit Poll inflated the Bush tally by more than 4 million votes. Even though the 43/37 weights were mathematically impossible, the exit-pollsters had no choice but to use them. And that's why the naysayers lost the ‘Game’. Their use of implausible vote shares meant that they could not come up with one believable Bush win scenario. To match the recorded vote, they were forced to make the following implausible assumptions: 1) 14.6% of Gore 2000 voters defected to Bush. But the 12:22am NEP reported that 8% defected; it was changed to 10% in the 2pm Final Exit Poll. The probability of a 6.6% discrepancy is ZERO. 2) Kerry won 52.9% of those who did not vote (DNV) in 2000. But the NEP reported that Kerry won new voters by 57-41%; it was changed to 54-45% in the Final. 3) 7.2% of Bush 2000 voters defected to Kerry. The 12:22am NEP reported that 10% defected; it was changed to 9% in the Final. THE FINAL NATIONAL EXIT POLL "HOW VOTED IN 2000" WEIGHTINGS WERE MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. THEY HAD TO BE IN ORDER TO MATCH AN IMPOSSIBLE (FRAUDULENT) RECORDED VOTE COUNT. Buzzflash readers are waiting for you to explain how a mathematically impossible National Exit Poll could possibly match to an honest vote count.

Oh, but I do!!!

No TruthIsAll, I DO believe that in 2000 & 2004 we Democrats got robbed somehow. I just know that we didn't get robbed by using your calulations. They've been proven wrong time & time again. And to use your caluations to project Obama a big winner is a disservice to us Democrats. I'm not a Obama supporter, as many here can tell you, but to give Obama supporters false hope & maybe not work as hard as they have to to get Obama elected is not fair to them.

That is a clear contradiction and is logically inconsistent.

truthisall.net I challenge you to refute any of the pre-election and exit poll data (which you call "garbage") that I utilized in the analysis. I also challenge you to refute the assumption that Kerry would win 75% of the undecideds. Are you aware that Gallup projected that Kerry would win 90% of the undecided vote?

Are you aware that over 3 million votes were uncounted and at least 70% were Kerry votes?

Are you aware that the unadjusted exit polls indicated an average 6.7% Within Precinct Error (WPE) which translates to a Kerry 52-47% win?

Are you aware that Kerry won 54% of the 6 million late votes (absentees, provisionals)?

On the one hand you say that the election was stolen. But that is exactly what my Election Model indicated - Kerry won with 52% of the vote..

On the other hand, you claim that your model was correct because it matched the recorded vote which we both agree was fraudulent. I must be missing something here.

For your projection model to be correct, you must believe that Bush won the True Vote. But the True Vote was not the same as the fraudulent Recorded Vote.

Your criticism of my data, assumptions and methodology has no merit whatsoever. Kerry won. Get over it.

Excellent info

I've no doubt you are correct about this and have thought as much for years, as have many others (check out Bradblog). In every state where there is a republican governor and Sec of State and in every county that is controlled by the GOP, there is a chance (if not liklihood) of democratic voter suppresion and purging by machine. It's just a fact. It's the only way republicans can win elections outside the South anymore.

Thank you PM

and we will all have you to thank for your part in pitting one Democrat against another with your constant harping against Hillary when at least half of the voters support her and she is the one who has won the "blue" states with enough electoral college votes to beat McCain.

the dream ticket that would be unbeatable is CLINTON/OBAMA

With that ticket, the Dems are unbeatable this November and Obama would have 8 years to gain experience and then hold the White House for 8 more years -- until 2032.

OK, Rovebots on this list start your personal atacks and threats against me instead of discussing this like adults.

Sorry Bobby

It's Obama/Clinton. The loser is the VP.

Quit griping and get to work

Quit griping and get to work for Obama, regardless of his running mate. Just do it.

A few facts

Here is a fact you may not like--under the democratic rules as they currently exist, Obama leads in the popular vote, not Clinton. He will likely lead it after all the states have voted even if one counts Florida. So your statement that at least half the voters support Hillary is dubious at best. Secondly, while it is true that Clinton is probably stronger in Pennsylvania and Ohio (and perhaps Florida) in the general than Obama, there is no guarentee that he cannot win those states, whereas Clinton could lose Iowa, Minnesota and Wisconsin and would have absolutely no shot in Colorado, N Carolina, Virginia or Georgia. So the electibility case can be made either way and is inconclusive. What is not inconclusive is the fact that Obama is certain to be the nominee. and no amount of your fantasizing otherwise is going to change that. So hasn't our little discussion been an exercise in futility? Get on the train, Robert. It's leaving with or without you, your decision.

The Dream Ticket is

CLINTON/OBAMA Hillary Clinton for President 2008-2016

Barrack Obama for vice president 2008-2016

Barrack Obama for president 2016-2024

This is the best of all possible outcomes. Instant unity among Democrats with a plan to hold the White House for the forseeable future. This is the duty of the "super delegates" under the party rules that created them. To open up the primary process and then have a plan to "broker" the convention to do what is right and best for the future of the Democratic Party.

Let's put down our swords now, and do what Democrats do -- move forward.

Just my opinion. What I think should happen.

Alright, swords down

But Robert, what you think SHOULD happen and what is actually GOING to happen are two seperate things. If Hillary had won the most pledged delegates then I would agree with your scenario and would support it. But Hillary has not won the most pledged delegates and will NOT be on the top of the ticket. In fact, after last week she is quite unlikely to be on the ticket at all. If you think there is any chance whatsoever that superdelegates are going to effectively disenfranchise the most loyal constituancy of the Democratic Party (African Americans) by taking the nomination from Obama--who has WON this thing by any measure--and giving it to Hillary, then I have to seriously question your analysis of what's "best" for the party. I'm ready to move forward, been ready for weeks, and we will...just as soon as Hillary and supporters like you put your swords down and accept what must be accepted--that Barack Obama will be the democratic nominee for president in 2008. Can you do that? Can you accept the clear will of the voters?

The corporate media decides anyway

The corporate media will most likely decide the winner anyway by the way they "interpret" (actually spin) whatever both candidates do and say. If the corporate media wants McCain to win, then it could likely convince enough of the public that McCain "won" every debate with Obama even if McCain were in a coma the entire time. The media would praise McCain for his cool temperament, for Obama's inability to phase him, and criticize Obama for being too verbose and for talking down to his comatose rival. Such a performance would "prove" that McCain could handle any crisis without losing his temper and would "offer the perfect example of calm control we need in a leader." I have not seen enough evidence to conclude which way the corporate media will go on this, and possibly some will go one way and others will go the other way, but if the corporate media all supports McCain then what Clinton, Obama, or the Democratic Party does from here on out will be irrelevant.

Quit being paranoid about

Quit being paranoid about the media and instead help spread distrust of it and disgust with it. Fewer and fewer people pay attention to it all the time.

Obama WAS WINNING "White States" - until She WENT NEGATIVE !!

Obama WAS WINNING "White States" - until She WENT NEGATIVE after she lost Super-Tuesday!

Boy oh boy, PM and Buzzflash... we are really losing the propaganda battle vs the Hillary camp.

WHERE THE HECK do Hillary surrogates get off telling voters and Americans that the Junior Senator from Illinois has a "white voter problem"??

According to my 2 minute spin around the Google primary map, Obama WON:

ALASKA!!
COLORADO
CONNECTICUT
DELAWARE
HAWAII
IDAHO!!
KANSAS!!
MAINE!!
MINNESOTA!!
NEBRASKA!!
NORTH DAKOTA!!
OREGON!
UTAH!!
VERMONT!!
Virginia!
Washington
Wisconsin
WYOMING !!
(note: !! marks SUPER-WHITE states, duh)

He came damn close to winning New Hampshire, Texas, Arizona, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and other states, and most of those were after Hillary's campaign put every damn dime into NOTHING BUT race-baiting, "Ooh, look at the scary Black man who wants to take away the nomination from the poor little white woman."

Note: on my above list, I didn't even include states with a large percentage of Blacks (African-Americans) because that would be "UNFAIR" to the other candidate... who was the former first lady, had the support of Dem. machine in PA, Tx, OH, and other states behind her, not to mention had her husband's zillion-dollar rolodex and $100 million bankrole behind her!
(We will leave these states - North Carolina, Alabama, DC, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, South Carolina - out of the above IMPRESSIVE list of B.O. victories so as not to be "biased" towards the Junior Senator from New York.)

PM, Buzzflash, WHENEVER HILLARY SUPPORTERS SAY that Senator O. has a "WHITE PROBLEM" they are DISCOUNTING, IGNORING, DIMINISHING, "disappearing" the millions of WHITE voters in the above states!!!

THIS IS SHEER PROPAGANDA!

WORSE, imagine where Senator Obama's positives would be... IF Senator Clinton had dropped out a few weeks ago (after running a NON-race-baiting campaign) and Senator Obama could have spent the past 10 weeks in upstate Pennsylvania, in rural West Virginia, in rust-belt Ohio, in STATE BUDGET DEFICITS Texas and Florida...

...if Sen. Obama has ZOOMED IN on PRECISELY THOSE "white" areas that have been just as hard-hit by the Bush2 recession as poor Black communities have been hit. IF we could magically eliminate the past 10 weeks of Senator Clinton's blatant race-baiting, Obama would improve on his "barely lost" stats in PA, TX, OH etc. (against, mind you, a $100 million former president couple) the Junior Senator from Illinois' approval ratings against the decrepit and war-mongering McCain would be GOING THROUGH THE ROOF!

White voter problem"? You bet he does! Latino, Women & Middle ..

White voter problem"? You bet he does! Latino, Women & Middle class voters too!

Obama, Underperforming Kerry Among White Voters

The Hillary-friendly bloggers at TalkLeft note that “Barack Obama has not gotten more than 40 percent of the white vote since Wisconsin, where he won the white vote.”

It’s an imperfect comparison to weigh demographics from a primary election against a general election. Still, it would seem hard to imagine a scenario in which Obama gets a larger share of the white vote in the general election than he did in recent Democratic primaries. A not insignificant chunk of the white vote is Republican, and while “Operation Chaos,” a disinterest in the fairly-quickly-settled GOP primary, or genuine Obamacans may have boosted the number of Republicans who voted in this year’s Democratic primaries, the pool of voters who will turn out in November are likely to be whiter and less inclined to vote for Obama than the Democratic primary voter pools.

In other words, if Obama can't close the deal with white Democrats, it will be an uphill climb to win over white independents and white Republicans.

There will probably be a little more than 32 million votes cast in the Democratic primary this year. The total turnout in 2004 was 122 million Americans, which amounted to 60.7 percent of eligible voters. In other words, there are probably about 90 million Americans who will vote in November who did not vote in this year’s Democratic primary.

(Obama will almost certainly drive up African-American turnout in the general election this year, but the gap between this and other demographics has shrunk significantly. In 2004, 87.4 percent of registered African-Americans cast a ballot in the Presidential election, according to statistics compiled by the US Census Bureau, compared with 89.4 percent turnout among registered, non-Hispanic whites.)

In state after state, Barack Obama is drastically underperforming John Kerry’s general election numbers among whites among a voter pool almost entirely limited to Democrats.

In the Ohio Democratic primary, Barack Obama carried 34 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 44 percent of the white vote.

In Pennsylvania, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 45 percent.

In Missouri, Obama won 39 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 42 percent of the white vote.

This phenomenon occurs in states that aren’t seen as teeming with those classic Rust Belt/Midwest demographics. In Connecticut, Obama carried 48 percent of the white vote; John Kerry carried 51 percent.

In New Jersey, Obama carried 31 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, Kerry carried 46 percent.

In Rhode Island, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election Kerry carried 57 percent of the white vote.

In Maryland, Obama carried 42 percent of the white vote; Kerry carried 44 percent in the 2004 general election.

There are a few states where Obama’s primary percentage outpaces Kerry’s general election share. In North Carolina, Obama carried 37 percent of the white vote. In the 2004 general election, John Kerry carried 27 percent. (So much for help from John Edwards.)

In Indiana, Obama carried 40 percent of the white vote; Kerry carried 34 percent.

In New Mexico, Obama carried 55 percent of the white vote, Kerry got 43 percent. (Of course, in that state, Kerry carried 56 percent of the Latino vote (32 percent of the electorate that year), while Obama carried 36 percent of that key demographic in this year’s caucus, according to exit polls.)

But overall, it seems extremely likely that Barack Obama will get a smaller share of the white vote than John Kerry did in 2004 – requiring a huge turnout among other demographics. Some, like African-Americans, have already demonstrated great enthusiasm for Obama. Others, like Latinos…haven’t, at least not yet.

Election Fraud in the 2008 Primaries

truthisall.net Were it not for Election Fraud, Obama would have clinched the nomination long ago. But this is never discussed in the media which continues to perpetuate the myth that Clinton is within striking distance of Obama in the popular vote. Link here for a detailed analysis:

http://www.geocities.com/electionmodel/2008PrimariesLinks.htm

A rigged New Hampshire primary kept Clinton in the race. Hillary thought she would have the nomination locked up by Super Tuesday, Feb.5. The GOP wanted to run against her from the start. They knew that they couldn’t beat Edwards in the GE, so they made sure that he would be out of the race if they got the media to ignore him. But Obama proved to be a much tougher opponent than either the GOP or Clinton ever expected.

So now Clinton and the GOP are doing everything they can to prop up Hillary and derail Obama. Beginning with her miraculous New Hampshire “win”, there has been an ongoing effort to pad her votes at Obama's expense. Rovian tactics are being used to divide and conquer: it’s the only way that McCain can win. The media does not discuss the many indications of election fraud.

Obama currently leads Clinton by over 700,000 in the recorded vote and by over 160 in pledged delegates. But if the exit polls and caucuses reflect the True Vote, he would be leading by more than 1.5 million votes. That would make a tremendous difference in his pledged delegate margin. Obama would be the nominee right now were it not for election fraud.

Primaries, Caucuses and Exit Polls

Obama does much better in human-counted caucuses than in machine-counted primaries. Texas is a perfect example. There’s a 30% difference in Obama’s margin between the primaries (49-47%) and the caucuses (66-34%). His recorded vote margin is dwarfed by his lead in the exit polls. But that’s not unexpected; the progressive (i.e. Democratic) candidate always does better in the exit polls than in the vote count due to the endemic fraud: uncounted and switched votes. It’s not due to biased exit polling. Ideally, the exit poll discrepancies would be equally distributed between the two parties. The fact that they always move in favor of the most conservative candidate indicates a pattern of fraud which is beyond a reasonable doubt.

In the 21 primaries which had exit polls: Obama leads by 50.4-45.8%. Clinton leads by an average 48.4-47.1% in the recorded vote. The discrepancy in margin from exit poll to the vote is 5.9%.

The exit poll-to-vote shift favored Clinton in 18 of the 21 states.

The 2.5% Margin of Error was exceeded in 11 of the 18 states.

The margin discrepancy exceeded 13% in 5 states.

The probability that all of these discrepancies would be due to chance is as close to zero as you can get.

Operation Chaos

Just before the March 4 Texas and Ohio primaries, Rush Limbaugh called for "Operation Chaos" to get Republicans to cross over and vote for Clinton. Since March 4, there have been two sets of Republican crossover voters. The first set consists of Republican moderates who voted 2-1 for Obama. The second consists of Operation Chaos Republicans who voted for Clinton. Final Exit poll data shows that since March 4, the percentage of Republican crossover voters has increased from 6% to 9%. The change has been totally to Clinton's benefit. Assuming the first 6% of Republicans voted 59-28% for Obama, the other 3% (150,000) were Operation Chaos crossovers who voted 100% for Clinton!

Prior to March 4, Obama won the seven primaries in which Republicans participated by an average 57-38% vote. He won the Republican vote by 59-28%.

Since March 4, Clinton has won the average vote by 51-47% and Republicans by 57-41%

Prior to March 4, Obama won the total vote by 50.1-45.6%.

Since March 4, Clinton is leading by 50.8-47.8%.

Operation Chaos was one factor which may very well have caused Obama to lose the Texas primary by 51-47%. It definitely caused his 50.6-49.4% defeat in Indiana. Of course, the effect on pledged delegates was minimal.

New Hampshire

The Final pre-election polls (3-4% MoE) gave Obama an average 8% margin over HRC. The early (unadjusted) exit poll had Obama winning by 8%. He won New Hampshire hand-counts by 5.90% but lost machine-counts by exactly the same margin.

South Carolina

Even though he finished third, Edwards would have done better in the general election than either Clinton or Obama.

Super Tuesday

Just like the 2004 battleground states exit poll red-shift to Bush, Clinton’s recorded vote share in 14 of 16 primaries have exceeded her exit poll share.

In New York, over 80 precincts, many in black areas, recorded Zero votes for Obama. Mayor Bloomberg called it fraud.

In Los Angeles, 90,000 independent votes were uncounted due to the confusing ballot design (shades of the infamous Florida 2000 “Butterfly” which cost Gore over 3,000 votes).

Ohio

Clinton's vote share exceeded her 9pm exit poll share by 3.6% (55.2-51.6%). She won the recorded vote by 10.6% (55.3-44.7%) over Obama. But her exit poll margin was just 3.4% (51.7-48.3%). As always, the Final Exit Poll was adjusted to match the vote count. In addition, there is concrete evidence that Republican cross-over voters played a significant role in delivering votes to Clinton. In Cuyahoga County 17,000 Republicans followed Rush Limbaugh’s advice and voted for her. And this was also the case in many other counties.

Texas

There was a strange, impossible result: Zero votes were cast for Republicans in 21 counties (all 36,239 ballots cast were for Democrats). There were zero votes cast for Democrats in 3 counties (all 1865 ballots cast were for Republicans). Did Republicans follow Rush Limbaugh’s advice and cross over to vote for Clinton? We can assume that crossovers, even if not 100%, occurred in other counties.

Mississippi

Obama won by 61-37%, but 25% of Clinton’s votes came from Republicans who followed the advice of Rush Limbaugh. Obama won 65% of Democrats and Independents.

Pennsylvania

Here dirty tricks caused votes (and pledged delegates) to be stolen from Obama. Hillary won the recorded vote by 54.7-45.3%. But 100% of the votes were machine-counted. The unadjusted, “pristine” early exit poll had Obama leading 52-47%. His 5% exit poll margin became a 9% recorded vote loss. Clinton led the adjusted exit poll by 52-47. The Final exit poll matched the recorded vote 54-45.

Indiana

The latest media myth is that Rush Limbaugh’s Operation Chaos had no effect on the Indiana primary. Their argument is that the Clinton-Obama (53-47) share of the 10% Republican crossover vote is virtually the same as the split in the total vote. Clinton won by 50.6-49.4%, but Operation Chaos Republican crossovers inflated her vote by 4%. Obama should have been a 51.5-48.5% winner.

Do you know what a Primary is?

The fact that white Democrats voted for Mrs. Bill Clinton in a PRIMARY in no way indicates they'll vote for a REPUBLICAN in the general! Unless, Tommy, you think they're all racists. There is no White, Latino, Women or Middle Class voter problem. There is a goddamned "HRC in the way" problem.

Thomas M, You Old Racist! You Still Peddling That Wheeze

that Obama has no traction among anything other than young, well-educated people and Blacks? According to most recent polls, the ONLY demographic Clinton holds the edge in after her consistently going negative herself and through surrogates like YOU is older White Women - and ancient bigots like you, apparently, who fondly remember the Dixiecrats.....

And Yes - I AM going to keep calling you on your racism until you shut up and support the Chosen by the Voters Democratic Candidate, Barack Obama....

Who started all this Negative stuff

What happened is a problem Obama made and not Hillary who said we need to take a look at this candidate. After looking at the facts about both candidates I changed my mind. Before super Tuesday I could have voted for either. Now I will vote only for Hillary. Obama has lost his chance and I must stand up for the truth, even if we lose the White House. We must win the Congress and that looks good. Don't blame Hillary, the press, or anyone except Obama for being a part of the Black culture and his association with radical black leaders which caused his appeal with the voters to drop. You can't win with the 50% Obama Democrats. That's only 25% of all the voters who will be voting in November. Its a loser. We haven't even mentioned the Southern states and how they will vote. That's a bigger loser.

Names please.

Please list the "radical black leaders" Obama is associated with. Wright is a pastor, not a leader, unknown outside Chicago before this. Please list all the others. Take your time. We'll all wait.

You're an idiot...

... and people like you get the Government you deserve, namely George Bush. Regardless, we're going to win without you. But don't worry, you'll be able to take advantage of tremendous change that will occur in this country even if you're a deluded fool.

thefitconnection

..No, patcoghm speaks the Truth! And do you notice he made his statement without calling you a "idiot" or a "deluded fool"!! You said.... "take advantage of tremendous change that will occur in this country" I've yet to hear from Obama what those changes are!! What are they? How is he going to do them? When is he going to do them? All I've heard is flowery speeches.

Stop Being Lazy

You want to know what Barack's policies are? Goes on his website. Every candidate has detailed plans listed on their website. If you claim to be against a candidate and say they have no detailed policy plans, then you're simply being lazy. That Clinton line of spin doesn't work anymore. Get off your ass, type in www.BarackObama.com and read about his plans. For ANYONE to say that Clinton OR Obama don't have detailed plans is pure stupidity. In the internet age, for people to claim they don't know a candidate's policies just means that person refuses to take the time to research a candidate. Notice that I didn't call you an idiot, for the record I called you lazy and stupid.

Obama won White States AFTER she went negative...

Clinton didn't affect Obama's ability to win white states. The people of Appalachia weren't going to vote for Obama anyway. There's alot of racial hatred in them there parts. Look at the map of states Obama won - he'll have won Oregon, Montana and South Dakota - all majorly white states, after her negative tirade. She took the racist section of Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia. A swath through the middle of the US that isn't the most racially friendly area. Not to mention that AFTER her negativity, Obama is polling way above Clinton in California and is destroying her in national polls. Once June 4th comes and the supers declare, the Obama train will be on cruise control. Until then people, quit letting 24/7 cable and internet news freak you guys out about every single detail. I've been reading Buzzflash for 7 years but never felt compelled to register until today. Democrats have got to chill the fuck out! All signs, statistics, etc., are pointing to us. Relax and enjoy the ride!

Indeed

As has been documented elsewhere on the Net but is rarely pointed out on TV, Obama's so-called "white voter problem" is actually limited to Appalachia. Just one more reason to pick Jim Webb as veep. In Webb's book about the region called "Born Fighting," he notes in detail how much these people love and respect a good fighter. As a black man running against a white female for the nomination, I think Obama felt he had to tie one hand behind his back and often pulled his punches. We all understand the dynamic in play. He had to walk a real tightrope which contibuted to his being perceived as a professorial nerd at times. In the general he can let loose and has a better chance of winning these people over by showing he knows how to fight, too. I believe his problem there is more cultural than racial.

Good post

I think you're onto something here and believe that Obama has been demonstrating his fighting form with McCain lately. He is learning how to get under McCain's thin skin and will do well to keep recognizing John's honorable service during Vietnam, while highlighting his current ineptitude as a presidential candidate.

Obama, if he chooses, also

Obama, if he chooses, also can highlight his support for his family, as a way of reminding McCain of how he sold out his own family for Bush.

can highlight his support for his family

Naw, I don't think he can do that. Remember Obama threw his white grandmother & his minister under the bus!!!

Remember 1948...

...and the same is possible because of McCain's Brand. In 1948 Truman won when no one expected it. The polls all assumed it would be Dewey and so did Dewey, so he didn't push - just played the gentleman and assumed he would win. Truman and McCain have the same attraction: regular guys who most American's 'understand'. The irony was that some Americans who voted for Truman later said that they did so because they liked him, even though they knew he wouldn't win!!

Barack has got to run as hard as Truman since many of swing white voters in PA, MI, OH and FL don't feel he is thier 'man'. His task is to 1) show that he is just another middle America American, and 2) paint a true protrait of what McCain has become.

"Give em Hell, Barack!"

Absolutely

Will, you're one of the few that seem to understand the dynamic in play here. Identity often trumps issues in politics. If the reverse were true, poor rural whites would vote democratic in every ekection. As Jim Webb has written and spoken of often, if the democrats ever learn to speak the "language" of Appalachia and "connect" to the people there, it could form the basis of an unstoppable democratic coalition for years to come, ala the 1932 New Deal coalition.

Stop it Chicken Little

Stop it Chicken Little, I mean PM. Look, we all know what the Supers are waiting for. They're waiting until June 4th until the last primary is done. That way, they don't alienate Clinton supporters who still seem to think she can win even though Obama's already locked up the majority. This hasn't changed for two months now. Why the sudden doom and gloom. Let's be honest, the Republicans saying they feel good is all head games. They've lost every special election for congress, their poll numbers are in the toilet, Bush won't hide away in a cave, the economy continues to worsen, and the war continues to go on, and on, and on. Combine that with the fact that Obama is a dynamic, good looking, communicator who invokes memories of JFK and RFK. Contrast that with the Republican candidate who is a doddering old fool who can't keep his facts straight, who is unliked even by his own party. Don't expect the Republican base to be energized for this election. I know many Repubs who are going to just stay home rather than vote. It's the perfect storm for Democrats. After June 4th, Obama will have 5 months to rip McCain a new one and expose his bullshit. I realize you write one column per day, but the doom and gloom stuff is ridiculous this far out. One last note: whose shoes would you rather be in right now? Those of the Republicans or those of the Democrats?

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics...

...Mark Twain. God knows we hope you're right in all you say here, but PM is correct to raise the alarm at this important time when the Superdelegates need to end the nomination and we Democrats can begin the actual battle. This is one election year that cannot go wrong! Then, in late January 2009 when President Barack Obama occupies the Oval Office, we can cite another of Twain's quotes "I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened"!

The superdelegates need to

The superdelegates need to do no such thing. We know who they are for; we know that Barack Obama will be the nominee; and the media know it, too. The only way that could change is for the unspeakable to happen. That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know. At this point it is better not to rub salt into the self-inflicted Clintonian wound.

I think I heard Moses speak...

...No just a guy named Barry. Whether you like it or not, Professor, the superdelegates should and will likely weigh in and turn the tide next week after all the voting is done and the party decides how to seat MI and FL...Any lingering indecision would be actual appeasement, and God knows that is unthinkable.

Time for phase 2

Just a couple of weeks more, folks, and Obama can make that phone call to Jim Webb and offer him a spot on the ticket. Until then, let us hope with every fiber of our being that Hillary doesn't offer us another week like last week. I'm not sure which I liked better--her goulish LBJ fantasy of grudgingly accepting the democratic nomination with Obama's warm blood freshly splattered in crimson all over her newest paisley pantsuit--or having Obama and his supporters compared to the theiving GOP jackels who stole Florida and the presidency in 2000. Hmmm, tough to decide. At any rate, politics is about compromise. I plan to forgive her completely (but never forget), at the exact moment she puts her arm around Obama and enthusiastically endorses him as the nominee. And I'm sure Obama will rise above the current rancor as well and hold no grudges. The only question now--is what does Hillary get out of this process? Because just as we aren't leaving Iraq without the oil, Hillary isn't leaving this process without some firm guarentee of something she values. In my mind she has completely poisoned any chance of being on the ticket after last week's shenanigans, so a position as veep is probably out. Party poombahs floated the trial balloon of the NY governorship a while back--then blacks in NY "gently" reminded them that they already have a minority governor. Harry Reid seems to like being Senate Majority Leader and I'm not sure Hillary has the support to take it from him. She could continue in the senate (ala Kennedy) and work at being a master legislator...but I doubt that's enough for her. So what else is left for Obama or the Party Elders to offer her that she would take? Is Sec of State beneath her? I think that may be Biden's spot--and I personally don't think she would consider it as an adequate consilation. No, after veep, I believe there is only one position left that is commenserate with the democratic nomination (as she probably sees it). And that is her nomination as Supreme Court Justice. Doable, I suppose, should Obama win and a spot open up...of course, there would be furious GOP pushback due to her lack of judicial experience (and other "things") and it would cost a great deal of political capital...but perhaps doable. Justice Hillary Clinton? Anybody have other suggestions? What can Obama and the Party offer her to make her leave this race with grace?

No VP for Hillary

You know, I think she might've have screwed herself out of that position with her comment. I don't believe that Obama would like to look at her licking her lips every time he went on a plane trip. She just couldn't help but say something like, "Have a nice trip, Barack, hope your plane doesn't crash or anything, ya know?" There are many good VP choices to be made. I'm sure Obama will make a good one.

Another reason

If Mrs. Bill Clinton became VP, Obama would be dead before he finished the oath of office.

I actually enjoyed Clinton's last week...

...and I'll tell you why - it eviscerated her shot at the VP slot. Gone. Up until her RFK remark, Obama might have felt pressure to take her on the ticket as she was doing her public tantrum, but now that pressure has been aleviated - thank you, Senator Clinton. Others may have been horrified, but I was ecstatic when I heard the news of her remark. Now Obama can, without pressure, put together a REAL dream ticket - my vote would be Webb or Richardson - to take home the prize.

Say goodnight Gracie...

Add to those insults her campaign's blaming of Obama for "fanning the flames" of the fire she started, and Bill's feeble attempt at media intimidation by claiming they are 'covering up'...and you have the perfect storm of Party, voter, and Media disgust focusing together against her... couldn't agree with you more. In March I analogized Hillary's campaign to a metaphor of a fighter pilot shot up over the Channel...she had the choice of ejecting the crippled plane in hopes of fighting again, or she would take the plane down flaming....last week the flames appeared!

Richardson a possibility

I like him as my second choice as well. If Obama is feeling confident about Pennsylvania he could choose to do a western strategy and concentrate on Colorado, N Mexico and Montana. But honestly, the electoral votes are back east. Webb would shore up Pennsylvania and help significantly in Ohio and Florida, and give Obama at 50/50 shot at Virginia (and maybe even N Carolina and Georgia). McCain would likely be toast if he loses one or more of those states and would have to upset in Michigan and somewhere else to get those votes back. Right now I really like our chances.