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To Impeach or Not to Impeach: That is the Question for Rep. Conyers

Submitted by meg on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 2:31pm.

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

Well, Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) has thrown progressives for yet another loop. As I reported yesterday, Conyers had some confusing words about the likelihood of Rep. Dennis Kucinich's articles of impeachment against President Bush making it to a hearing in the Judiciary Committee (click here for our interview with Kucinich about his articles of impeachment).

Conyers has been trying to lower the public's expectations for impeachment all year long.

At the progressive political event Fighting Bob Fest in Baraboo, Wisconsin in 2005, Conyers said he would move to impeach Bush if voters gave Democrats a majority in Congress. In essence, this was a campaign promise, as a Democratic majority (which was handed over in 2006) moved Conyers from ranking member on the Judiciary to the committee's chair.

At this year's Take Back America Conference, Conyers offered a veritable guarantee of impeachment. However, he again made it conditional on an upcoming election, saying he wanted to wait until the presidency was safely in Democratic hands.

On July 1, Conyers unexpectedly met with the Milwaukee Impeachment Committee to discuss the matter. Conyers was in Wisconsin to campaign for Rep. Steve Kagen (D-WI) and Milwaukee Impeachment Committee members were there to protest the fundraiser. Conyers spoke with the protesters and arranged a meeting the next day at the hotel at which he was staying.

Debbie Metke, an organizer of the group who arranged the meeting with Conyers, told me he said that while Democratic leadership had said no to impeachment, it was still an action he considered "on the table."

"I didn't think he was hiding behind the Democratic leadership," Metke said. "Who knows. Maybe he's pulling a fast one on us. But what he said was it needs a lot more support."

Metke said Conyers asked them to try and garner more support for impeachment. The group has already done quite a bit to get the news out about the issue. Recently, they videotaped a panel of four experts (two pro and two con) debating the need for impeachment on a local TV show called "4th Street Forum." Metke said the program was so powerful that it won over her conservative relatives.

I'd noticed just by browsing comments on impeachment stories all over the Web that it's really difficult to find anyone who's anti-impeachment. While admitting our progressive readership, I asked Metke whether she knew anyone against impeachment.

"No, I can't think of anybody," she said. "Not people who are knowledgeable."

But knowledge is hard to come by with an emotional issue such as this one:

"There's support with the knowledgeable people, but the media aren't educating people."

Metke said she was disappointed by an exchange between Conyers and Veterans For Peace about a week after her group's meeting with the Congressman.

"My mind still isn't made up," Conyers told the veterans. Conyers said he would have a decision by the next time the veterans came to Washington to meet with him, scheduled for July 25.

Yesterday, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) said impeachment was no longer "off the table," as she had been repeating since her tenure as House Speaker began. Pelosi said yesterday the articles of impeachment wouldn't fare well on the House floor. And conventional wisdom is that the proposal would have an even tougher time in the Senate. Pelosi appeared to feel that Dennis Kucinich was building enough support that she wanted to have the impeachment issue "vented" in the Judiciary Committee, but go no further.

However, a recent poll shows 39 percent of Americans support a Bush impeachment, compared to 32 percent who supported President Clinton's impeachment. So maybe when legislators say they need more support, they mean among lawmakers and not constituents.

But the progressive community feels much more intense about the urgency for justice and the upholding of the Constitution than most Americans. Polls indicate that domestic issues -- not impeachment or even the Iraq War -- will drive the 2008 elections.

Conyers was very candid in talking with the Milwaukee Impeachment Committee, based on notes of the meeting provided to BuzzFlash. It must be incredibly difficult for one of the great lions of liberalism and justice in the House to become someone seen as an obstacle to justice. Some are annoyed with him; we are sympathetic to his plight.

The veteran Congressman from Detroit -- who has fought many a lonely battle for civil liberties and Constitutional values -- stated what we all know: Constitutional issues aren't topping agendas on Capitol Hill when it comes to getting re-elected. Bread and butter issues are safer, and one can infer from his comments that the Democratic House leadership views an impeachment hearing just a few months before the election as something that will get in the way of the Obama-led campaign message machine.

Jane Meyer, a noted New Yorker columnist, has a book coming out on Monday on the administration and torture. In it, according to the New York Times, is reference to a Red Cross report -- until now unrevealed to the public -- that indicates that the Bush Administration was likely guilty of war crimes in relation to its advocacy for torture.

Surely that is just the tip of the iceberg of the Bush Administration's illegal behavior that far surpass the threshold of high crimes and misdemeanors.

Conyers has frustrated some of the most committed impeachment advocates because there is a gap between the short leash on which he is being held by the Dem House leadership, the political "conventional" wisdom guiding the presidential and congressional campaigns, and the passion to see justice done. We doubt that if Conyers was given a green light, he would do anything other than sink his choppers into impeachment as if it were fillet mignon. He's from a District where it would only further enhance his heroic, inspiring reputation.

But, as he told the Milwaukee Impeachment Committee, he has to deal with the realities of a Dem House leadership, Blue Dog Democrats, and almost every Republican who would vote against impeachment. Clearly, many of the advocates seeking justice before the rule of law are frustrated with what appears to be a pragmatic outlook in the face of such a mountain of illegal activity by this administration.

As far as BuzzFlash sees it, it's the Dem leadership who is calling the shots. If anything more than a show hearing comes out of this, it will take more than action and education in Milwaukee; it will take an army of advocates who make clear to their House Representatives that impeachment is a key issue in restoring Constitutional integrity to the United States.

But with the Obama campaign probably wishing that the drive for impeachment would run into a concrete barrier; Pelosi looking upon impeachment advocates as rabid lefties (ain't that ironic); the likelihood of impeachment getting to the House floor is not great, to say the least. And Conyers knows that. But that's his predicament, however much we respect and honor him.

Our role is to stand up for the Constitution and the rule of law, as Congressman Kucinich has -- and to support him in every way possible.

Because if we continue to allow presidents and vice-presidents to be above the law, we don't really have an active Constitution. In such a case, we've relegated that parchment of liberty and democracy to the National Archives as an historical, not a living document.

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ANALYSIS

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Conyers.....A Disappointment

Submitted by GwenP on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 6:41am.
After the fiasco of the last presidental election in which Bush stole the election...AGAIN, Conyers was one of the few in Congress standing up to the fact that many, many, many voters were disinfranchised. I was so proud of him! When he came out with his report listing the countless reasons for impeaching Bush, I was even more so. HOWEVER, once the democrats became the majority in congress, all fearlessness ceased. He stopped being the "man of reason" and became someone who actually REFUSED to meet with people pushing for impeachment. Worse yet, he had some of them arrested! What the heck has become of this once great man????? He is just another one of the long listed members of congress who has disappointed me in their actions over the past years - or lack of action. He had the chance to make a REAL change to the democracy of this nation and instead insulted those very individuals who were trying to do exactly that! He's simply blowing sunshine up our you-know-whats these days when he even mentions the possibility of impeachment.
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Conyers.....A Disappointment

Submitted by GwenP on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 6:41am.
After the fiasco of the last presidental election in which Bush stole the election...AGAIN, Conyers was one of the few in Congress standing up to the fact that many, many, many voters were disinfranchised. I was so proud of him! When he came out with his report listing the countless reasons for impeaching Bush, I was even more so. HOWEVER, once the democrats became the majority in congress, all fearlessness ceased. He stopped being the "man of reason" and became someone who actually REFUSED to meet with people pushing for impeachment. Worse yet, he had some of them arrested! What the heck has become of this once great man????? He is just another one of the long listed members of congress who has disappointed me in their actions over the past years - or lack of action. He had the chance to make a REAL change to the democracy of this nation and instead insulted those very individuals who were trying to do exactly that! He's simply blowing sunshine up our you-know-whats these days when he even mentions the possibility of impeachment.
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WE the PEOPLE

Submitted by blackjack on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 2:03am.
WE the PEPOLE should never have to be ask this Question, that is why we ELECT people to the HOUSE and SENATE they SWARE an OATH to the CONSTITUTION not to any party or PERSON, but when WE the PEPOLE make bad dicisions now we see what happens. We the PEOPLE will have to begin taking our GOVERMENT back. THE first step is BRAKING UP THE CORPORATE CONTROLED MEDIA, to make good dicisions We the Pepole have to have GOOD and TRUE information, not controled and slanted by the BIG CORPORATION, who controle evert thing that we SEE on TV, HEAR on RADIO or READ in the NEWSPAPERS. The TRUTH good or BAD has to KNOWN not two sides the TRUTH has only one side.
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Impeachment of Bush/Cheney

Submitted by paganbaby on Sun, 07/13/2008 - 8:49pm.
The excuse for not impeaching is often "it will not pass the Senate". I don't think that is important. What is important is to have the impeachment hearings so the MSM will have to cover the crimes, unconstitutional activities, incompetence, and inhumanities of the Bush/Cheney administration. Reaching the public is more important than actual impeachment. The hearings are a means to the end--discredit the blind support for unreasoned foreign policies at the expense of a better society here in the US.
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I agree

Submitted by gurn blanston on Mon, 07/14/2008 - 10:40am.

The important thing is to show the Executive, the Courts, the nay-sayers in Congress, and the rest of the world that we stand for the rule of law.

But this Congress had essentially conceded its power already, by repeatedly allowing folks to refuse to appear and testify, even when under subpoena. W's minions have transmogrified Congress into dogs and ponies, and we are ever hopeful watching that show.

The neocons seized power in 2000. They aren't ever giving it back. Most people haven't realized it yet, but Congress has proved it to us repeatedly. Any other nation would have tossed Cheney the minute he kept 'deferred compensation" from Halliburton, never mind illegal war, war profiteering, and the minor matter of torture.

If Conyers et al fail us now, then we need no additional evidence that our republic is lost. See ya in the camps.

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It has become Obvious

Submitted by the_Lensman on Sun, 07/13/2008 - 10:40am.
We have let the Demons get control of the government and all of the founding fathers dreams of the rule of law by the people have been corrupted. Now the sole function of our government is the transfer of wealth from the people to the greedy wealthy. I have become so disenchanted by this whole process that I feel despair creeping around my heart. All that remains is to build a bomb shelter and crawl into it.
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Whinners as Col Gramm says !!!!!

Submitted by billiebob2 on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 8:58pm.
One thing most people don't understand about bush and dick is they don't care ! bush has been fired off more jobs than you can count . While impeaching him will shame poppie and mommie it want be anything new , The whole of bushes bunch is as crooked as snakes . No ship them off to stand war crime trials . We in Texas will get another usless libary , at least it will have only one book in it the little goat . Thank God he isn't a Texan !
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That is not a question for us!!

Submitted by Evan Cundiff on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 12:18pm.
We don't need to waste anymore time discussing if, or when to impeach the Bush gang. We need to concentrate only on HOW to get the job done! We need everyone to sing along with Dennis Kucinich and Robert Wexler. We have too many analysts doing a forensic study on an overdone issue. Either that or all the so called Progressive writers and bloggers are sucking out the oxygen from our Bush roast seeking out new or different issues. We need to get our straying cats moving in lockstep! I suggest making the fire hotter by hyping the threat of Vincent Bugliosi’s new book ‘The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder’. The Bushies are treading water waiting for the clock to run out while Pelosi and the Dem big guns are aiding and abetting by dousing our fire with procrastination and lies. We need to sing one song and only one song. Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now! Impeach now!
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It's All Academic at this Point in Time

Submitted by ERW on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:55am.
As soon as the words, from newly elected Speaker of the House of Representatives, Nancy Pelosi, "Impeachment is Off The Table" were circulated, by every means possible, across the country. The Game Plan, and the Book of game plans, of the Democrats, was given to the Republican party. Why else would Democrats divulge their strategy for running government, with a newly elected majority, to the opposition? No reason. Unless, you wanted the opposition administration to know, in no uncertain terms, that "business as usual" would continue on Capitol Hill. Rememeber those other famous words "We are going to drain the swamp?" Like that was ever going to happen, either. Whether or not this even comes out of commitee is all academic at this point. It will have little, or no, impact on the national election, on George W. Bush, or Karl Rove, or Dick Cheney. All three of whom are most certainly guilty of "high crimes and misdemeanors". Whatever the Democrats do at this point, is too little, too late. The time to stop torture was in 2006. The time to stop war profiteering was in 2006. The time to close down Gitmo, and stop illegal renditions, was 2006. The time to stop the politization of the Department of Justice, was 2008. Much too little. Much too late. Even this will not improve the poll numbers for this miserable congressional leadership. That we would even be discussing this, in July of 2007, three months before a national presidential election, is ludicrous.
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Can't decide whether he wants to protect the Constitution...

Submitted by Chabuka on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:53am.
must be a real tough decision..either protect the Constitution and uphold the law..or wimp out and slink back into his sputtering incompetent rhetoric..how the hell did this "jewel of justice" ever get elected in the first place...? When he put his hand on the bible and swore an oath to protect the Constitution..obviously he was lying...
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Flopama is not the solution

Submitted by Mike5000 on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:47am.
In reply to "banjobailey on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 7:17pm":

Go post your blackmail letters on a forum for people with single-digit IQ's. The people here can read and think. Nobody here is going to buy that "you'd better elect the lesser of two war criminals or else" nonsense.

The senator for Verizon has CHANGED(tm) too much. Flopama is not the solution. He is a big part of the problem.

The solution is people like Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich. People who do what is right rather than selling out.

The solution is leadership rather than pre-emptive surrender.

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Nothing will happen

Submitted by SpikeHeels on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:33am.

I firmly believe that many members of Congress have blood on THEIR hands by silently agreeing with Bush's lawlessness. Impeachment hearings would only bring their complicity to light, especially that of Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer and Harry Reid. They care more about covering their a$$es than the constitution or the rule of law.

The truth will come out eventually and they will be shown to be just as corrupt as the other members of the Bush crime family.

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john conyers

Submitted by kjgj1031 on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:25am.
John Conyers' wife Monica is being investigated for taking possible bribes in her capacity as a Detroit City Council member. The investigation is being done by the FBI. I believe that is why Conyers is too afraid to tackle something that reaches this rogue president. Conyers himself is probably running scared and is too afraid of upsetting anyone in power for fear that the government will soon uncover something that he may be involved in. I'm surprised that Buzzflash readers have not picked up on this angle.
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Conyers & Impeachment

Submitted by hoscot on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 11:09am.
A President under impeachment cannot pardon. This is the only way to prevent bush pardoning his fellow criminals before leaving office.
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A Three Step Plan For Impeachment

Submitted by crackerjack on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 2:07am.
"Step one?" "Spreading the word online." "Why online?" "That's where everyone is." "Step two?" "Round the clock vigils outside the district offices of every congressperson and senator." "And step three?" "A general strike." "Timeline?" "One week for each step." "And what sort of world after we force Congress to impeach President George W. Bush?" "It'll be up to us."
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KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE BALL!

Submitted by josephconrad on Sat, 07/12/2008 - 12:42am.
The 'storyline' is bread & butter issues drive this year's Election because Americans are feeling great PAIN from MIDDLE EAST OIL WARS COSTING > $1 TRILLION A YEAR = $11 TRILLION NAT. DEBT = WORTHLESS DOLLAR (U.S. doesn't make anything anymore)= SHATTERED ECONOMY = DESTROYED AUTO+INDUSTRIAL+MANUFACTURING SECTORS = OVER 5 MILLION JOBS LOST SINCE '01 + 17.5 MILLION SINCE '81 & LOWER WAGES EACH YEAR SINCE '01 + SUBPRIME SCAM GIVING $3-5 TRILLION TAXPAYER DOLLARS TO WEALTHY WHITE BOY 10%-ERS TO BAILOUT BANKING SYSTEM. NET RESULT? BUSH, CHENEY, RICE, RUMSFELD & FASCIST ZIONIST THUGS GET OFF SCOT FREE & FEEL NO PAIN!! WHERE'S GOD WHEN YOU NEED HIM TO TAKE SOME EVIL LIVES?
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A question of balance regarding impeachment

Submitted by RicKelis on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 7:54pm.
To quote you, Meg, To Impeach or Not to Impeach: That is the Question – and has been the question for quite a few of us since December 12, 2000. That’s when I signed my first petition – and when I started corresponding with Bob Fertik about this subject over at democrats.com. Since then I’ve monitored “Bush impeachment” on Google News, watching the number of current articles range from about 400 to 4000 – right now there has been a resurgence from 400 at the beginning of the year to about 2500 mid-year in July’08. Though interest obviously ebbs and flows, impeachment does not go away. Progressives like Bob Fertik and Dave Swanson (whose most recent article can be found on Buzzflash.net) help to keep it alive. A few years ago, John Conyers was right there – but, as experience has shown, it is much easier to be adversarial when you are the minority party. When in the majority, politics as the art of the possible kicks in. It’s a question of balance, to quote the Moody Blues – and also the Masonic and Kabbalistic rationale of balance underlying the mindset of our Founding Fathers. We could very easily include Abraham Lincoln in that list. Being the optimist that I am, I hope that this viewpoint is what is guiding congress-people like Nancy Pelosi, John Conyers, Harry Reid, and yes – Barak Obama. Part of the mindset that those who see the wisdom of striking a balance - even while getting things accomplished - revolves around that passage from Ecclesiastes that the Byrds used in their 60s hit, “Turn, Turn, Turn.” “There is a season.. and a time for every purpose”. As you no doubt know, impeachment can occur at any time, whether the indicted person is in office or not. So too can indictment and trial for the various crimes this lawless Bush administration has committed – even if this has to occur on the international stage via The Hague. But we, as interested parties, must keep the fire of truth and justice burning for this to occur.
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To Impeach or Not Impeach....

Submitted by banjobailey on Fri, 07/11/2008 - 7:17pm.
Of course you are right: it is our role to stand up the for Constituion and the rule of law. And, we are doing that to the best of our ability. This situation reminds me of other times in our history when the people were held under the sway of a criminal gang. Flashback: the state of Idaho during the late 1800's when the Plummer Gang was voted into office though fraudulent elections. They proceeded to rob and murder everyone in their way until the day when the people said, no more. They arrested this gang and hanged them. Well, what is different now? We are in the grip of criminals to the point that only the people can rescue us. Do not expect the current Congressional leaders to do any more than they are capable of doing without the support of an overwhelming number of American citizens behind them. Do you not believe, really, that the people in power right now not are criminals? Do you really expect a Senate with a pitiful majority to overcome these criminals by themselves? Do you really expect them to overcome some 80 filibusters from Republilcans every day? Although you make the point, every day, about how very bad everything is in this country, I have to wonder whether or not you really understand and comprehend what we are truly up against. You seem to think that the Democrats are in some sort of a position to remedy this criminality because they have a slim margin in the Senate. Huh? Impeachment is entirely the correct and honorable remedy for ourselves at this moment. However, reality is that we are way, far beyond that. These criminals have left us with no remedy except our election in November. We must NOT turn against ourselves in the delusion that we have more power than we actually have. Elect Obama or be done with your dreams.
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